[Guide] Rogue vs. Rogue PvP

[Eukamel]

@deadfate: you obviously have no clue about rogue v rogue. I wish you good luck in getting away from a rogue with sprint and clos while you've got cripp on you. Not to mention the fact that if you've magically got away, by the time you've dropped combat and stealthed the "dotted" rogue will be running the other way with sprint up / distract on you which will save him long enough for him to restealth as well at which point the game has been reset and you risk losing the opener, this time without a trinket (assuming he blinded you earlier on, even if he didn't you've still lost the opener which is pretty huge). Dot kiting is a tool of TBC, not WotLK. You simply have to adapt. And as to prevanishing. That was only really worthwhile against humans with old perception. Stealth detection is so sketchy that I, as an undead without engi goggles, tend to find human rogues with engi goggles.

"Also when they get opener on you, and you trinket KS blind them, vanish right away and kidney shot, because the second you blind they are gonna trinket" you just lost all your credibility. I don't mean to be an ass but please you shouldn't speak seeing how you're clearly clueless. You should never vanish right after blind. Unless you see them trinket that is. If you vanish BEFORE they trinket and blind, with some bad latency, blind is still gonna land and vanish is gonna bug. Not to mention the fact that not every rogue trinket at the same time. This statement is so ****ing dumb I can't really imagine what made you post a comment to something resembling a rogue guide. @ Halfslant: This is a Rogue v Rogue duelling guide, there are no partners to blind. In arenas keeping bleeds up is a completly different story.
@Smahs: if you open with cs on sap like that he's just gonna trinket and blind you anyway, there's nothing really "cool" about it that separates that tactic from any other opener. Except for the fact that you've done 0 damage to him before he's trinketed and he's on dr with both sap, gouge and cheap shot. And finally, @ugot: So let me see if I got this straight. I open with cs then waste my 3 combo points on rupture before he trinkets and blinds me. JUST so he can't bandage / eat while he's sitting on 90-95% hp? Dude you bleed so he can't run away and reset the fight (in arenas, where his partner can keep you in combat). And dude wtf, you can infact eat while dotted. Please no more clueless guides / comments on how to play Rogues.

[ashter247]

you should always get a rupture up as soon as possible. I do it before the KS even. This way, if they vanish, they will come right back out.

i lol @ u....

[HalfSlant]

I didnt know this was a guide to dueling.... I play arena, not duels :X

edit: i think my point still stands.... if you get the opener, bleed him, vanish and wait it out. when you open again, he will be missing alot of his life. I have serrated blades, blood spatter, 2pc valorous and rupture glyph , so my rupture does ALOT of unavoidable dmg.

edit edit: now that I think about it, this guide is useless. I can kill rogues inside the cheap shot, 99% of the time, if they dont have a healer. how hard is it to muti, muti, cb, evis?

[BaboonX]

"@Smahs: if you open with cs on sap like that he's just gonna trinket and blind you anyway, there's nothing really "cool" about it that separates that tactic from any other opener. Except for the fact that you've done 0 damage to him before he's trinketed and he's on dr with both sap, gouge and cheap shot."

Then he just wasted two CD's.. his blind and trinket.. And he can't restealth blind beacuse you have garrote on him.. lol... oh and if he trinkets when you cheap shot you can get rapture on him ASAP befor he does blind.

My rogue is only 77 tho, i play a mage so you can be right

[Tatertots]

Sap, garrote, rupture, vanish,cheap shot, muti, muti, kidney shot, blind (bleeds should be over with), restealth, cheap shot, rupture, evasion tank. Hard stuff

[grak]

Nice guide thanks, seeing i fail at playing my rogue, +rep

[Eukamel]

"@Smahs: if you open with cs on sap like that he's just gonna trinket and blind you anyway, there's nothing really "cool" about it that separates that tactic from any other opener. Except for the fact that you've done 0 damage to him before he's trinketed and he's on dr with both sap, gouge and cheap shot."

Then he just wasted two CD's.. his blind and trinket.. And he can't restealth blind beacuse you have garrote on him.. lol... oh and if he trinkets when you cheap shot you can get rapture on him ASAP befor he does blind.

My rogue is only 77 tho, i play a mage so you can be right

He's gonna waste those two cd's no matter how you open on him only difference is that like some other guy said rogues die in a stun from raw mut / evi damage so if you go with this opener you're gonna lose a lot of damage on him before he pops his two cd's. Not to mention the fact that you CAN stealth / vanish and open between Rupture / Garrote ticks. Which basically renders this useless.

"edit: i think my point still stands.... if you get the opener, bleed him, vanish and wait it out. when you open again, he will be missing alot of his life. I have serrated blades, blood spatter, 2pc valorous and rupture glyph , so my rupture does ALOT of unavoidable dmg."

Dude... This is one of the dumbest posts in this thread, which proves that there is no way you're playing arena at a high rating. Anyway, If you open with a garrote / rupture on sap he's just gonna A: get you out of stealth with FoK, blind you watch you trinket, gouge out of trinket, vanish between Rupture / Garrote ticks, open with cheap shot when your trinket is down and either kill you in the cheap shot / kidney shot or pop evasion after and wear you down since your vanish was blown on your shit opener. Or he's B: Gonna distract you, sprint away and get a restealth when the dots are off, at this point you've lost your opener and he might find YOU in stealth in a situation where you have no vanish and will most likely lose. Even if you get lucky enough to find him twice (hai humans with engi goggles) he's gonna trinket and blind you at which point you trinket, eat a gouge, watch him vanish and open with cheap shot into kidney shot which will most likely kill you, even if it doesn't he can just pop evasion and shiv you / muti, evi, kidney you from behind to death.

One possible opener would be to garrote / rupture on the sap, sprint away and get a restealth before sap breaks, reopen with cheap shot into kidney just as his bleeds are open to fade away. Although this is a bit risky since he might pop sprint as well and run the oppisite way and possibly get a restealth off before you open on him, or have get you out of stealth with a well timed FoK (most rogues who use this opener reopen just as his bleeds are about to fall off, so if you use FoK when you've got about 1-2 secs left on your last bleed you're most likely gonna hit the other rogue out of stealth). But yeah like I've said this can be quite risky and like all the other "complicated" openers it's quite useless when a rogue will die in a stun most of the time.

[Sarkor]

If you open with a garrote / rupture on sap he's just gonna A: get you out of stealth with FoK, blind you watch you trinket, gouge out of trinket, vanish between Rupture / Garrote ticks, open with cheap shot when your trinket is down and either kill you in the cheap shot / kidney shot or pop evasion after and wear you down since your vanish was blown on your shit opener. Or he's B: Gonna distract you, sprint away and get a restealth when the dots are off, at this point you've lost your opener and he might find YOU in stealth in a situation where you have no vanish and will most likely lose. Even if you get lucky enough to find him twice (hai humans with engi goggles) he's gonna trinket and blind you at which point you trinket, eat a gouge, watch him vanish and open with cheap shot into kidney shot which will most likely kill you, even if it doesn't he can just pop evasion and shiv you / muti, evi, kidney you from behind to death.

^
this
Bleeds are pretty crap in this season.. I'd not use it.

One possible opener would be to garrote / rupture on the sap, sprint away and get a restealth before sap breaks

I think it's rly hard to garrote/rupture without breaking sap. The garrote will get him out of sap, and if not.. You'll eat a Blind or a Throw, so no restealth.

Edit: As a nightelf it's pretty easy to Sap -> Garrote without breaking Sap, Shadowmeld and reopen.

[LGizzle]

Wellwritten, +Rep if i can

[Eukamel]

Wellwritten, +Rep if i can

The actual guide is mostly common sense and was pretty shit from the beginning. Now that he has changed half the guide after my comments (reposted might be the correct term here) it certainly is better, but I still wouldn't give him any rep for a semi stolen, semi common sense guide.

[Vitaliciedade]

That's a cool reaction game.

[BloodOmenx3]

Very nice !

[deadfate]

@deadfate: you obviously have no clue about rogue v rogue. I wish you good luck in getting away from a rogue with sprint and clos while you've got cripp on you. Not to mention the fact that if you've magically got away, by the time you've dropped combat and stealthed the "dotted" rogue will be running the other way with sprint up / distract on you which will save him long enough for him to restealth as well at which point the game has been reset and you risk losing the opener, this time without a trinket (assuming he blinded you earlier on, even if he didn't you've still lost the opener which is pretty huge). Dot kiting is a tool of TBC, not WotLK. You simply have to adapt. And as to prevanishing. That was only really worthwhile against humans with old perception. Stealth detection is so sketchy that I, as an undead without engi goggles, tend to find human rogues with engi goggles.

"Also when they get opener on you, and you trinket KS blind them, vanish right away and kidney shot, because the second you blind they are gonna trinket" you just lost all your credibility. I don't mean to be an ass but please you shouldn't speak seeing how you're clearly clueless. You should never vanish right after blind. Unless you see them trinket that is. If you vanish BEFORE they trinket and blind, with some bad latency, blind is still gonna land and vanish is gonna bug. Not to mention the fact that not every rogue trinket at the same time. This statement is so ****ing dumb I can't really imagine what made you post a comment to something resembling a rogue guide. @ Halfslant: This is a Rogue v Rogue duelling guide, there are no partners to blind. In arenas keeping bleeds up is a completly different story.
@Smahs: if you open with cs on sap like that he's just gonna trinket and blind you anyway, there's nothing really "cool" about it that separates that tactic from any other opener. Except for the fact that you've done 0 damage to him before he's trinketed and he's on dr with both sap, gouge and cheap shot. And finally, @ugot: So let me see if I got this straight. I open with cs then waste my 3 combo points on rupture before he trinkets and blinds me. JUST so he can't bandage / eat while he's sitting on 90-95% hp? Dude you bleed so he can't run away and reset the fight (in arenas, where his partner can keep you in combat). And dude wtf, you can infact eat while dotted. Please no more clueless guides / comments on how to play Rogues.

This coming from the leacher in 1300s.. pvp is hard bro

[Eukamel]

This coming from the leacher in 1300s.. pvp is hard bro

Bold statement. No, I'm as far from the 1300s as you can get. Not that bragging about your rating on a public forum is cool. Oh and all of a sudden I'm the 'leacher'. Why don't you read through the guide, and all the posts after and you'll quickly realize how much I've infact contributed to this, at first, shitty guide.

*edit* oh and the fact that you have to guess when you're opponent is gonna trinket so you can vanish before hand proves that your reaction times are absolute shit and that you'd never be able to vanish his blind, AFTER you've seen him trinket. And with such shitty reaction times, not to mention your overall tactics, you certainly belong in the 1400s, and should thus not talk out of your league. So, yeah, the scrub alert went off on you 'bro'. Unless of course you're playing an arcane mage, hunter, pala, DK, or full pve geared rogue, in which case, yeah, pvp is hard.

[Sarkor]

The actual guide is mostly common sense and was pretty shit from the beginning. Now that he has changed half the guide after my comments (reposted might be the correct term here) it certainly is better, but I still wouldn't give him any rep for a semi stolen, semi common sense guide.

Dude.. The whole guide is written by me. I never saw something linke that on MMowned, so it's not semi stolen. If you find anything.. post a link
And the only thing I edited from your posts was the Gouge Trinket thing which I forgot (but it was in the movie before you posted anything).

So stfu

Edit: It might be common sense, but it will definately help a few rogues and that's it worth