Best ret pally talent choices

[Mondays]

this is my PvP spec

The World of Warcraft Armory

ive been questioning taking out divine purpose for sanctified judgement

[peregrine2976]

Behold!

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

This is my Raid spec and it works amazingly well, I'm always third-second (if our Warlock is away, first) in damage dealt, and if you get the rotation of seals and judgements right, you should not run out of mana before the fight is over.

[SockofBadKarma]

this is my PvP spec

The World of Warcraft Armory

ive been questioning taking out divine purpose for sanctified judgement

That's exactly what you should do. And not having Stoicism is wholeheartedly foolish. If you want a 0/20/41 spec, go with my spec.

[Mondays]

That's exactly what you should do. And not having Stoicism is wholeheartedly foolish. If you want a 0/20/41 spec, go with my spec.

Alright, well I do agree with that spec, except instead of putting 3 into improved seal of crusader, I think it would be better to put it into parry? I really dont use seal of the crusader too much in pvp, targets usually die too fast for me to worry about it. IMO the 3% crit isnt worth the cooldown of judgement.

[Chrommie]

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft For PvP

[SockofBadKarma]

Alright, well I do agree with that spec, except instead of putting 3 into improved seal of crusader, I think it would be better to put it into parry? I really dont use seal of the crusader too much in pvp, targets usually die too fast for me to worry about it. IMO the 3% crit isnt worth the cooldown of judgement.

I see this a lot of the time. If you REALLY want to put 3 points into Deflection, so be it, but remember that it's either 3% PARRY (aka single-target melee-only front-facing mitigation) or 3% spell AND melee crit for ALL players focusing the target. The 3 points into Imp. SotC, on top of being more logical in regards to the fact that Ret has no real problem with other melee specs, is worth much more in terms of itemization.

3% Parry will only be useful in these situations in PvP:
A Warrior is trying to Spamstring you or MS you, you are facing THEM (which means you are attacking them, which is a bad choice in most cases), and you parry their attack, wasting Rage.

A Rogue tries to stun you with KS and you Parry it. Very rare.

A Ret Paladin or Enh Shaman is attacking you, which you really shouldn't have to worry about at ALL.



In comparison, SotC can and should be judged on:
All Warrior specs
All Mage specs
Shadowpriests (Disc can be judged with SotC, but SoW will probably be more useful, or even no Judgement, due to rapid dispels)
All Paladin specs
All Hunter specs
All Warlock specs

JoJ is primarily used for Shamans, Druids, and Rogues to negate their speed bonuses.

SotC is a major asset in 3v3 and 5v5 Arena, seeing as you really won't need to use JoJ often, and that extra 3% crit to all attacks (as well as the obvious 200 extra damage to your attacks) can quite easily make or break some games. All Deflection will ever do is make it so that melee specs targeting you will have a measly 3% higher chance to lose damage to a parried attack. You can only parry from the front, which means that in anything OTHER than a pure 1v1, whichever melee spec is attacking you WILL be doing so from behind to PREVENT Parry, especially Rogues.

Deflection is almost entirely useless to me, and I find at least a few decent uses for SotC in PvP. Not all people die in 2 seconds. That's only the case for 15-resilience Fire Mages in WSG without healers wearing Greens of the Sorcerer, and frankly, you wouldn't exactly need Deflection for those people, either. Hell, you don't even need to be AWAKE to fight those people.

[ucigashu]

SockofBadKarma
_______________________________
holly paladins stil pwn :P

[Mondays]

I see this a lot of the time. If you REALLY want to put 3 points into Deflection, so be it, but remember that it's either 3% PARRY (aka single-target melee-only front-facing mitigation) or 3% spell AND melee crit for ALL players focusing the target. The 3 points into Imp. SotC, on top of being more logical in regards to the fact that Ret has no real problem with other melee specs, is worth much more in terms of itemization.

3% Parry will only be useful in these situations in PvP:
A Warrior is trying to Spamstring you or MS you, you are facing THEM (which means you are attacking them, which is a bad choice in most cases), and you parry their attack, wasting Rage.

A Rogue tries to stun you with KS and you Parry it. Very rare.

A Ret Paladin or Enh Shaman is attacking you, which you really shouldn't have to worry about at ALL.



In comparison, SotC can and should be judged on:
All Warrior specs
All Mage specs
Shadowpriests (Disc can be judged with SotC, but SoW will probably be more useful, or even no Judgement, due to rapid dispels)
All Paladin specs
All Hunter specs
All Warlock specs

JoJ is primarily used for Shamans, Druids, and Rogues to negate their speed bonuses.

SotC is a major asset in 3v3 and 5v5 Arena, seeing as you really won't need to use JoJ often, and that extra 3% crit to all attacks (as well as the obvious 200 extra damage to your attacks) can quite easily make or break some games. All Deflection will ever do is make it so that melee specs targeting you will have a measly 3% higher chance to lose damage to a parried attack. You can only parry from the front, which means that in anything OTHER than a pure 1v1, whichever melee spec is attacking you WILL be doing so from behind to PREVENT Parry, especially Rogues.

Deflection is almost entirely useless to me, and I find at least a few decent uses for SotC in PvP. Not all people die in 2 seconds. That's only the case for 15-resilience Fire Mages in WSG without healers wearing Greens of the Sorcerer, and frankly, you wouldn't exactly need Deflection for those people, either. Hell, you don't even need to be AWAKE to fight those people.

that's true yeah, but your also sacrficing a good amount of damage from a judgement to get that on there. .. meh screw it im respeccing

[SockofBadKarma]

that's true yeah, but your also sacrficing a good amount of damage from a judgement to get that on there. .. meh screw it im respeccing

You don't actually believe that Judgement of Command gives good damage, right? The only time it's even SLIGHTLY respectable damage is when the target is stunned and you have 3 stacks of Vengeance, in which case it might crit for about 1500 damage. Generally, it hits for about 300. I personally find a few hundred extra Holy Damage on my other Judgements AND my Seal procs, as well as 3% crit from all sources, to outweigh a single 300-damage attack.

[SockofBadKarma]

SockofBadKarma

What is this about?

[Mondays]

You don't actually believe that Judgement of Command gives good damage, right? The only time it's even SLIGHTLY respectable damage is when the target is stunned and you have 3 stacks of Vengeance, in which case it might crit for about 1500 damage. Generally, it hits for about 300. I personally find a few hundred extra Holy Damage on my other Judgements AND my Seal procs, as well as 3% crit from all sources, to outweigh a single 300-damage attack.

I use Seal of Mondays, it does a lot of damage.

[Relentlesserv]

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I have to say I love this spec the best. taking 10% less damage from melee and ranged crits is rather good against rogues and warriors + hunters, and reflecting spell crits can do alot of damage , I was once on about 400 health when a mage crit his fireball on me and knocked himself out aswell. Upcoming patch you might want to take 1 talent point out of sanctified seals but keeping the Stoicism so you have a 99% chance for your seal not to get dispelled , since dispels will no longer attempt to remove 100% undispellable effects. that means that It should never get dispelled.

[SockofBadKarma]

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I have to say I love this spec the best. taking 10% less damage from melee and ranged crits is rather good against rogues and warriors + hunters, and reflecting spell crits can do alot of damage , I was once on about 400 health when a mage crit his fireball on me and knocked himself out aswell. Upcoming patch you might want to take 1 talent point out of sanctified seals but keeping the Stoicism so you have a 99% chance for your seal not to get dispelled , since dispels will no longer attempt to remove 100% undispellable effects. that means that It should never get dispelled.

Okay, biggest problem here is... well... why didn't you take Imp. Hammer of Justice? It's the only real reason to spec that deep into Prot. Everything else is a nice bonus, including Stoicism. Without getting Imp. HoJ, you've ruined the point of speccing into Prot past 11 points.

Furthermore, damage reduction from critical strikes softcaps at 25% reduction, hence why I keep saying to remove Divine Purpose from your spec. If you have anything past 300 Resilience, Divine Purpose will actually reduce less than it says it will, because you'll be "reduction-capped". On top of that, if you have less than 300 Resilience, you are probably going to be screwed over, anyway, so you might as well just go for damage abilities.



Edit: In regards to your "Sanctified Seals" theorycraft, there is also an undocumented change that prevents SS from stacking with Stoicism, so if you only take 2 points to keep the Seal on the dispel roster, it will only have 66% protection, not 96%.

[dcduo]

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

There is no other way about it, since the roll over of 2.4.3 this is The Cookie Cutter spec, removing one point from Sanctified Seals is now essential V mages, priests and shammies. My personal choice is to place the spare into 1/3 imp JoCrusader.

Persuit of Justice, Vindication, Imp sanc aura, divine purpose and imp judgement (if nesessary) can be moved around, but for pvp (especially 3v3) this is about as good as it gets.

[SockofBadKarma]

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

There is no other way about it, since the roll over of 2.4.3 this is The Cookie Cutter spec, removing one point from Sanctified Seals is now essential V mages, priests and shammies. My personal choice is to place the spare into 1/3 imp JoCrusader.

Persuit of Justice, Vindication, Imp sanc aura, divine purpose and imp judgement (if nesessary) can be moved around, but for pvp (especially 3v3) this is about as good as it gets.

I should kill you where you stand for not getting Vindication, Imp. Judgement, 3/3 Imp. SotC, Imp. RF, or 2/2 Guardian's Favor.

This is a much better spec. If you need me to explain why, please stop PvPing.