Legandary Rogues Daggers gives you wings!

[TehVoyager]

There's a wast difference between "WTF RROGUES GET MORE WAAAAAAI I CRAY" and what is posted in this thread.

Also imho, Glaives & Thori'dal shouldn't be counted as legendaries at all. Not at all. They should be counted as "Epics with stats as good as items in the next patch". This because of the fact that they were nothing but a drop. Nothing legendary about them. Well, they look pretty cool.

Also, no. I am not biased as I'm not playing a rogue myself. But I may be rolling one this patch cause of these stupid daggers.

Agree with Thor'indal. it was outclassed by an epic in the same raid.

Disagree with the glaives. they were the cream of the crop weapon for rogues (and may have been for warriors too, cant remember.)

Lots of nonconstructive posts in here.
Thread reported to Mod for clean up ^_^

Report whatever you want sir.

I've actually seen a lot of that in this thread. People complaining about how rogues get a legendary and for example, a tank doesn't get one.

No, you've seen disagreement to the concept of a one class legendary, and disagreement to another legendary for a class that has 4 allready. there really hasnt been any crying about it, just discussion as to why people posting in this thread disagree with the idea. but if the thread personaly bothers you, dont feel that you have to read it.

All posts thus far have been constructive, it's an interesting read and argument which is what forums are meant for, so far all posts have been typed in a clear intelligent matter and no WTF ROGUES GET MORE WAAAI I CRAY so no reason really to report this thread unless you just can't handle the heat, in which case you should get out of the kitchen

Thanks for the backup Confucius. this is something i feel strongly about and this seems to be the only forum where i can discuss this matter.

[KuRIoS]

Discussions are fine as long as they are kept civil. Please keep the trolling to a minimum tho and remember that not only your opinion is the right one!

[TehVoyager]

I'm tryin' sir C:

[wac]

Just because a weapon is BIS doesen't mean it should be legendary if you catch my drift :P. And I really want a source saying Thori'dal wasn't BiS...

Please define a legendary. Giving it Orange coloured name doesen't make it legendary. (I hope you get what I mean...)

[phantom325]

Thori'dal was BiS, I don't know who said it wasn't. Here, a fragment of a comment on WoWhead (from Thori'dals page). This comment has received 754 +'s.

Yes it's a hunter weapon, no it doesn't use ammo, yes it's very powerful, yes you'll probably replace it at some point in Wrath of the Lich King, yes it's the highest dps bow in the game, yes it probably hits pretty very hard, qq your [insert class here] can't use it (although, note, it has no Hunter-only specification), no Blizzard isn't biased to hunters (there have been quite a few legendaries in the game prior that can't be used by hunters), I'm sorry you don't think Kil'jaeden is a bad enough dude lore-wise to drop a legendary, and it probably doesn't have a ridiculously high drop rate (maybe comparable to Warglaives).

Okay?

[wac]

Exactly my thoughts. But the glaives however, they weren't *THAT* good compared to weapons in Sunwell. I don't even think they were worth using if you had only one of them. (Given that you had the other two next-to-bis weapons.)

[phantom325]

Exactly my thoughts. But the glaives however, they weren't *THAT* good compared to weapons in Sunwell. I don't even think they were worth using if you had only one of them. (Given that you had the other two next-to-bis weapons.)

The 450 haste proc was what made them so good, but when you only had one, it wasn't so great. They were still good, but not amazing.

[TehVoyager]

Compatre the MH Glaive to any OH in TBC. if its T6 content MH, the glaive will have more stats and whatnot. if its sunwell IDK, but i think they come out about even.

Legendaries have a number of defining points.

first: a higher Item LVL than anything from that tier. whitch means a better Stat allotment.

Secondly theres a proc. (the glaives were made to function togeather But they are still two legendary items. stop. right. there.)

Thirdly is a Very distinct and recognisable visual appearance.

[lort]

Because the solution to an underpreforming class is totally to give them a legendary instead of buffing the class.


4.3 SHOULD have been either a Feral / hunter polearm, a weapon set for Enhance shamans, or a tank legendary. (completely doable, 1h/2h mace that buffs str or agi dependand on highest stat)


rogues are now up to SIX legendaries.

Feral druids: 0 (sulfaras doesnt count, when it was current content guilds would have been laughed at if they gave sulfuras to a feral, let alone HAVING a feral.)
Enh shams: 0 (had sulfuras, lost ability to use start of TBC)
Tanks: 1 (Warrior only, palas used spellpower weaps at the time. shadowmourne was low HP and not an optimal solution)
Warriors: 5 (glaive, glaive, bow (doesnt rly count), thunderfury, sulfaras, shadowmourne)
Rogues: 6 (glaive, Glaive, Bow (was BiS in sunwell) thunderfury, Dagger, Dagger)
Healers: 1 (Val'nar)
Caster DPS: 2 (Atiesh, Dragonwrath)
plus there was shadowmourne for War, Pala and DK.

wheres the effing Feral / Enh sham / hunter legendarys? blizzard made a stupid decision with rogue only daggers. they could AT LEAST have given shamans the ability to use them.


And Thori'ndal was a joke for hunters, the purple bow from Brutalis/Felmyst was BiS over the legendary. OOHH EXTRA BAG SLOT AND SPARKLY ARROWS THROUGH RITE RITE >.<

If you go with the logic I bolded out. You need to add Shadowmourne to tanks, it was BiS for DK tanks.
You can't list classes, and then several specs either. Also saying 0 for "Enhancement shamans" is dumb, they removed the talent requirement for 2h-maces, not the ability to wear them.
Counting glaives & daggers as 2 is also dumb. Because then we need to count Val'anyr as 31, it takes 30 fragments to craft it, and Shadowmourne as 51.

Feral druids: 0 (sulfaras doesnt count, when it was current content guilds would have been laughed at if they gave sulfuras to a feral, let alone HAVING a feral.)

With this logic we need to completely remove Thori'dal from rogues. Because guilds would have been laughed at for giving the bow to a rogue over a hunter.

No matter how you look at it adding a hunter/cat dps staff will screw tank balancing. And adding a tank legendary with the ability to choose between a 1Hander, staff, or 2handed axe or w/e is screwing balancing again. You can just give it to a dps, it's an legendary, it will be higher itemlevel, therefor it will have higher stats than other alternatives.

Full on bursting out in tears because your spec didn't get chosen, please....

Tl;dr: Quit all the crying, it's pathetic.

[phantom325]

If you go with the logic I bolded out. You need to add Shadowmourne to tanks, it was BiS for DK tanks.
You can't list classes, and then several specs either. Also saying 0 for "Enhancement shamans" is dumb, they removed the talent requirement for 2h-maces, not the ability to wear them.
Counting glaives & daggers as 2 is also dumb. Because then we need to count Val'anyr as 31, it takes 30 fragments to craft it, and Shadowmourne as 51.


With this logic we need to completely remove Thori'dal from rogues. Because guilds would have been laughed at for giving the bow to a rogue over a hunter.

No matter how you look at it adding a hunter/cat dps staff will screw tank balancing. And adding a tank legendary with the ability to choose between a 1Hander, staff, or 2handed axe or w/e is screwing balancing again. You can just give it to a cat dps, it's an legendary, it will be itemlevel, therefor it will have higher stats than other alternatives.

Full on bursting out in tears because your spec didn't get chosen, please....

Tl;dr: Quit all the crying, it's pathetic.

+rep, epic post is epic.

[TehVoyager]

If you go with the logic I bolded out. You need to add Shadowmourne to tanks, it was BiS for DK tanks.

From what I've read, Shadowmourne had the wrong kinds of stats for a tank. not enough stam, 2ndary stats that were bad for tanking.

in addition, why would I need to list a DPS weapon as BiS for a tank because I listed a DPS weapon BiS for a DPS?

You can't list classes, and then several specs either. Also saying 0 for "Enhancement shamans" is dumb, they removed the talent requirement for 2h-maces, not the ability to wear them.

BRB quick research
"Two Handed Maces and Axes were originally a 10-point talent (named simply Two-handed Axes and Maces) for Enhancement, but became trainable proficiencies in Patch 2.3."
I am in fact wrong about this point! this does not change the overall fact that rogues did not need a 5th and 6th legendary item.

Counting glaives & daggers as 2 is also dumb. Because then we need to count Val'anyr as 31, it takes 30 fragments to craft it, and Shadowmourne as 51.

Legendary item does not equal Legendary weapon.

With this logic we need to completely remove Thori'dal from rogues. Because guilds would have been laughed at for giving the bow to a rogue over a hunter.

Kil'Jaeden Legendary bow for a rogue - INSTEAD of a hunter!

No matter how you look at it adding a hunter/cat dps staff will screw tank balancing. And adding a tank legendary with the ability to choose between a 1Hander, staff, or 2handed axe or w/e is screwing balancing again. You can just give it to a dps, it's an legendary, it will be higher itemlevel, therefor it will have higher stats than other alternatives.

The Feral staff/polearm thing: Maybe. but all legendary's do that. a legendary for ranged only is going to make you want to take more ranged.

Full on bursting out in tears because your spec didn't get chosen, please....

Tl;dr: Quit all the crying, it's pathetic.

No, you've seen disagreement to the concept of a one class legendary, and disagreement to another legendary for a class that has 4 allready. there really hasnt been any crying about it, just discussion as to why people posting in this thread disagree with the idea. but if the thread personaly bothers you, dont feel that you have to read it.

[phantom325]

From what I've read, Shadowmourne had the wrong kinds of stats for a tank. not enough stam, 2ndary stats that were bad for tanking.

in addition, why would I need to list a DPS weapon as BiS for a tank because I listed a DPS weapon BiS for a DPS?



BRB quick research
"Two Handed Maces and Axes were originally a 10-point talent (named simply Two-handed Axes and Maces) for Enhancement, but became trainable proficiencies in Patch 2.3."
I am in fact wrong about this point! this does not change the overall fact that rogues did not need a 5th and 6th legendary item.


Legendary item does not equal Legendary weapon.



Kil'Jaeden Legendary bow for a rogue - INSTEAD of a hunter!


The Feral staff/polearm thing: Maybe. but all legendary's do that. a legendary for ranged only is going to make you want to take more ranged.

1) Actually, Shadowmourne was BiS for DK tanks. It's threat generation was outstanding, due to the proc, and back in WotLK, no DK weapons had any good tanking stats. You could nab a 2h'er from a Fury and he wouldn't be that mad, because you needed it for tanking. And, Shadowmourne had 3 sockets, slap a 30 stam gem in each of those and bam, amazing. You can argue and say it's red sockets, but back in WotLK, socket bonuses were trash.
2) Nothing to say here.
3) I've debated this point, and I'll debate it again. Glaives and the Bow were just DROPPED items. The bow even had a 5% drop rate. Yes, the items were BiS, but they were actually pretty easy to get. Most guilds had BT on farm when they got their glaives, and KJ on farm when they got their bow(s).
4) Read through that article, here's a few things you might find interesting:
A) What I think a large portion of people aren't quite understanding is that while the bow is indeed legendary, its drop rate isn't. It has the drop chance of anything else on his loot table.
B) Were we still wiping on a particular boss where every bit of rDPS was crucial, this would have been an obvious decision. We're not, though, and this puts us in a fairy unique position that I'm sure many of you find it difficult to relate to.
C) I simply wanted to make our green hunters work for it a little more.
5) I disagree on your point about wanting to take more ranged/whatever. There are a lot of fights that require a certain raid set up, and besides, they actually make Legendaries kind of hard to get now.

Sorry I had to number them, I don't know how you quote off certain sections at a time.

[lort]

1) Actually, Shadowmourne was BiS for DK tanks. It's threat generation was outstanding, due to the proc, and back in WotLK, no DK weapons had any good tanking stats. You could nab a 2h'er from a Fury and he wouldn't be that mad, because you needed it for tanking. And, Shadowmourne had 3 sockets, slap a 30 stam gem in each of those and bam, amazing. You can argue and say it's red sockets, but back in WotLK, socket bonuses were trash.

Just to add: Shadowmourne had stacking strength, with a final strength boost buff. Strength gives parry, which makes shadowmourne even better.

[ST6]

Because the solution to an underpreforming class is totally to give them a legendary instead of buffing the class.


4.3 SHOULD have been either a Feral / hunter polearm, a weapon set for Enhance shamans, or a tank legendary. (completely doable, 1h/2h mace that buffs str or agi dependand on highest stat)


rogues are now up to SIX legendaries.

Feral druids: 0 (sulfaras doesnt count, when it was current content guilds would have been laughed at if they gave sulfuras to a feral, let alone HAVING a feral.)
Enh shams: 0 (had sulfuras, lost ability to use start of TBC)
Tanks: 1 (Warrior only, palas used spellpower weaps at the time. shadowmourne was low HP and not an optimal solution)
Warriors: 5 (glaive, glaive, bow (doesnt rly count), thunderfury, sulfaras, shadowmourne)
Rogues: 6 (glaive, Glaive, Bow (was BiS in sunwell) thunderfury, Dagger, Dagger)
Healers: 1 (Val'nar)
Caster DPS: 2 (Atiesh, Dragonwrath)
plus there was shadowmourne for War, Pala and DK.

wheres the effing Feral / Enh sham / hunter legendarys? blizzard made a stupid decision with rogue only daggers. they could AT LEAST have given shamans the ability to use them.


And Thori'ndal was a joke for hunters, the purple bow from Brutalis/Felmyst was BiS over the legendary. OOHH EXTRA BAG SLOT AND SPARKLY ARROWS THROUGH RITE RITE >.<

Now if my calculations are correct Druids = 4 Legendary ItemShaman = 2 Legendary ItemPaladins = 5 Legendary ItemsDeath Knight = 5 Legendary Items, If you count the Warglavie’s as oneWarriors = 5 Legendary Items, If you count the Warglavie’s as one.Mages = 2 Legendary ItemPriest = 2 Legendary ItemWarlock = 2 Legendary ItemRogue = 3 Legendary Item, if your counting the Warglavie’s and Daggers as 1Hunters = 1 Legendary ItemNow I didn’t include the “Legendary Items from The Eye” As you are unable to remove them from the eye, however that said they are technically Legendary Items.At current date the only classes that have semi up to date or up to date with current expansions is druids, rogues, and well I guess you can add the classes that can use Shadowmoure, but that said they probably got rid of shadowmoure at level 83 to 84, go back to vanilla, even if you cant get the legendaries for certin classes anymore, doesnt mean they never had one, btw you can find this info on the WoW site, good day

[TehVoyager]

^useless necro post of into already posted in the thread is useless.

(and glaves and daggers are Two legendary items. the fact that they have a set bonus is Irrelevant. both have a higher item level than anything else at the tier they were dropped in.)

Druids 4 have all been boomkin/resto. ferals and tanks want some love. that's just how it is. deal with it.
Paladins 5 have all been ret/holy. Tanks want some love. that's just how it is. deal with it.
Rogue = six buddy, not three. Glave, Glave, TF, Bow, Dagger, Dagger.
hunters = 1 (technically. it was a terrible legendary.)

At the moment the only Specs to have semi up to date Legendary weapons is Everything but tanks. Enhancement shamans and hunters have been excluded from legendary weapons for some reason.
Shadowmourne was replaceable with a weapon off one of the first quests in Hyjal. seriously.

Please remember to check the post date and last post date before posting in old threads.