To the PQR Community, From Soapbox

[nilrem2004]

good Profile creators are compensated for there time and hard work. they receive +rep to get access to the other sections of the site.

as Gabbz said, a lot of the paid profiles use event handling designed in free profiles. so you would be (or are, idk) profiting "your" time because someone else gave there time and effort away, to make a community.

want to ask for donations via Paypal for your work? i got no problem with that..... as long as its ASKING for donations, and not demanding donations for access to what should be free, and incorporates free code.




Pretty easy. for example: what if team NOVA, or Gabbz had been pay only, and you diddnt have access to the nova frame, or gabbz event handling code?


another example: how would the community do if firepong, NOVA, Gabbz and Rubim all suddenly made all new versions of there code pay only, and stopped providing help for new profile writers, because now there profiles and any coding tricks they used in them were making them money?

OR:

why would established profile writers help new people trying to learn, if those peoples profiles would directly compete with there source of income?

I'll just say about event handling.... you have it in about 1000 addons you can download from Curse and checkout how thing works. It's LUA code, plain and open , nobody "invented" anything it all started LONG TIME before PQR in plain LEGAL wow addons. Hell every CD/Timer/Buff/Debuff has it.... -.-

I have private profiles which will probably never be published public since they are made by request from some of raiders from top US guilds that incorporate complete addons inside with my functionality and prediction systems for the whole raid, announcements inside designated channels, timers even some boss abilities tracking. Hell I even got a request to make profile sync with DBM and act upon it for patch 5.2. So you tell me should I say I invented it if I create it first in a PQR profile or the guys who made DBM did it before me?

/blah

[googlebee]

The simple reason many people are irritated with paid profiles, is there was nobody doing this for the first 12 or so months of PQR being released.

We grew this community here with what Xelper brought us in PQR, for free.

We helped each other, we shared ideas and code, that is what has made this community what it is, long before the Paid Profile Rodeo came to town.

To my knowledge there are only 3 people that have offered the *Paid Profile Service*. Failroad, Nilrem, and Soap. So its not like its some vast majority but yeah.

I have NO PROBLEM with anyone having real money donated for there time. If someone wants to send u 20 bucks to say thank you, awesome!

Anyone that has put together a profile knows that it does take time. testing, optimizing etc.

That is a fraction of the time it takes to come up with new functions and variables for PQR. Try weeks. Something none of the above mentioned people have done.

What "I" have a problem with:

1) The communities *FREE* shared functions, abilities, variables, etc being re-used within a paid profile.

2) Paid profile sellers have not shared a single thing with this community that has not already been shared. (Anyone could take all of Team Nova's, BossQwerty's, Valma's, and Sheuron's profile abilities, and create a top notch release with some common sense, new id's, etc)

3) Paid Profile *Free* versions to bait people into buying a *Better* version. Sure, you aren't forcing anyone, but if that isn't the old carrot stick philosophy , I don't know what is.

If you want things to return to what they were before paid profiles infested this community, stop selling them.

Rely on donations for your time as an option, not a prerequisite to get a *Better version* of a profile you make free.

If you disagree then that is your choice. Good luck with that!

-GB

[visitor]

I agree 100% with googlebee

[OnionsTich]

I think this would be OK if certain percent of money was donated back to owned core from the profile seller. Because the paid profiles have features that the free profiles have.

[KuRIoS]

I think this would be OK if certain percent of money was donated back to owned core from the profile seller. Because the paid profiles have features that the free profiles have.

It is not a discussion.. Having donate links in sigs or posts will not be allowed, under any circumstance So there is no reason to discuss that part any further.

[nilrem2004]

The simple reason many people are irritated with paid profiles, is there was nobody doing this for the first 12 or so months of PQR being released.

We grew this community here with what Xelper brought us in PQR, for free.

We helped each other, we shared ideas and code, that is what has made this community what it is, long before the Paid Profile Rodeo came to town.

To my knowledge there are only 3 people that have offered the *Paid Profile Service*. Failroad, Nilrem, and Soap. So its not like its some vast majority but yeah.

I have NO PROBLEM with anyone having real money donated for there time. If someone wants to send u 20 bucks to say thank you, awesome!

Anyone that has put together a profile knows that it does take time. testing, optimizing etc.

That is a fraction of the time it takes to come up with new functions and variables for PQR. Try weeks. Something none of the above mentioned people have done.

What "I" have a problem with:

1) The communities *FREE* shared functions, abilities, variables, etc being re-used within a paid profile.

2) Paid profile sellers have not shared a single thing with this community that has not already been shared. (Anyone could take all of Team Nova's, BossQwerty's, Valma's, and Sheuron's profile abilities, and create a top notch release with some common sense, new id's, etc)

3) Paid Profile *Free* versions to bait people into buying a *Better* version. Sure, you aren't forcing anyone, but if that isn't the old carrot stick philosophy , I don't know what is.

If you want things to return to what they were before paid profiles infested this community, stop selling them.

Rely on donations for your time as an option, not a prerequisite to get a *Better version* of a profile you make free.

If you disagree then that is your choice. Good luck with that!

-GB

So first things first, I started as a user of PQR, and to be specific I was using Valma's profile for my affliction warlock, it was great. I never even wanted to develop a profile since I had no need for it and everything was all right. But there are 2 things that happened:

1. Valma disappeared and didn't update the profile which just as well might happen with any other free profiles.
2. When he appeared on forum his statement was something like this (not quoting but if you want I can check what it was exactly, I will write in my words): "My profile is ready for MoP it just needs a bit of tweaking and sorting code but it will be released to my donators first untill certain amount of guilds clear the content" . So basically the guy you're mentioning put a BAIT (since you like to talk about BAITING people) to donate to him in order to receive the updated profile.

After that since I needed a working affliction profile I started learning how to do it and ALL MY WORK WAS PUBLIC. It can all be checked. But when I asked for help, when I asked for USERS of the profile to give me logs, to give me data, to say how the profile is working for them in order to improve my FREE profile and SAVE THE TIME NEEDED, I got shit. But there were TONS of downloads each day since it WAS the best affliction WORKING profile.
So in order to test more and make it better I had to invest LOADS of MY TIME. I can count on the fingers of my right hand how many people helped me. Those who helped know who they are.
So it was the COMMUNITY you so highly speak about that actually made me SPEND LOADS OF MY TIME TO IMPROVE PROFILE instead of SAVING MY TIME and by that keeping profile FREE.

Unfortunately community is full of lazy leechers who not only can't register on forum and post a screenshot or send me log so I can make better profile for THEM, but they so don't care. Well I don't care also.And I am starting now to develop ALL profiles actively for ALL classes and specs since I am asked to do it all time and people themselves offering money (you wouldn't believe how much) to make them profile that would put them on the top of the top.

And as far as I remember, 50% of profile writers asked for donations in their signatures before admins forbid it, including whole Team Nova, and others. I have no problem that people who spend most of their free time writing profiles and doing theory be compensated for their work but the hypocrisy that goes around is just unbelievable.

So to end this at least from my side. If the community wasn't that selfish and unhelpful today you would have top affliction profile for free and I would dedicate myself to help everyone make top notch profiles. I proved once I can beat Simcraft and their logics, and now I will just prove it on all other classes/specs I see fit. Those who help get access even now for free, those who don't, don't. Leechers have to pay if they want to be on the top.
And saying that all the "selling" started with me,Soap and Failroad is so untrue when you have Valma pointing out that his donators will get profile and others will have to wait, and as I remember he wasn't the only one saying stuff like that. I remember Crystal_tech saying also something simmilar. So first look amongst yourself all and then point fingers.

[TehVoyager]

Kur + bee = Ownt profile sellers.

COMMUNITY you so highly speak about that actually made me

No one made you work on a profile. You chose. Nice try...

And as far as I remember, 50% of profile writers asked for donations in their signatures before admins forbid it, including whole Team Nova, and others.

...And then the administration staff forbade that, and they removed it. Wow rules change! What a concept!
As someone else who recently had a run in with rule changes (the "no rules off topic board" getting a "no referral links" rule (I’m over it, it’s just an example.) after i posted a referral link to a contest) it FEELS like the rule change is directed solely at you... but it isn't. if i put a link in my sig saying "hey donate to me because I’m awesome" 1: it wouldn't be true, I’m not that awesome and 2: i would get an infraction for it, and a moderator or admin would change my sig to take the link out.

You, sir/ma’am, need to chill the @#$% out. You want to sell your profiles? Go do that on your own website. You don’t pay ownedcore's bills; you don’t make ownedcore’s rules. Good luck on your sales.

[Ninjaderp]

Kur + bee = Ownt profile sellers.



no one made you work on a profile. you chose. nice try..

Dont be childish, dude.

[TehVoyager]

wasnt being childish. its truth. nil said '"THE COMMUNITY FORCED ME TO IMPROVE THE PROFILE"' (paraphrasing)

and its bull. no one forced him to do anything. i'd like to see the leverage someone managed to apply to him over the internet to make him take over a code project like this.

thats not being childish, its straight up truth. and the kur+bee = ownt profile sellers isnt being childish either, thats my personal opinion.

[firepong]

I can honestly say 100% that I didn't take any donations for the 1+ year I coded my profiles. I flat ass posted I would not give out nor put it anywhere in my posts, my personal PayPal account. I knew what I was getting into and I do this for the fun of it, not to make a quick buck from someone as a thanks for the profile. I use the profile myself and as such, why would I charge for something I am actively using.

Nuff said. Rant Over.

[kuukuu]

This is quickly devolving into a flame war type thread so maybe both sides should just chillax a bit. Personally, I don't care if you want to sell your profiles because yes, it does take a lot of time to write the silly things from my experience and mine aren't even that advanced. Mine will still be free and I will still help anyone with whatever limited knowledge I have because I'm doing this for fun and to keep me interested in this silly game I've been playing for 8 bloody years. Granted other people may feel different but I don't think we're really accomplishing anything at this point other then driving an even bigger wedge into the PQR community which is the last thing I'm sure any of us devs want to see happen.

[crystal_tech]

my last post on this thread and i'm moving on.

I have taken donations, however the profiles i created where released as free, donators got early copies so i could tweak and get feedback for MOP release.

I thank them, the donations helped me greatly as times are (still) very tough, Also, I gave them credit for donating when you load the profiles i made.

I have in the past said that I may go private due to things going on at the time. But that was before I Team'd up with bubba and ment at Team Nova. I'm just going to say again.
I will not go private with my releases. ever.

At this point in the game, I don't care if peps sell profiles, even if its borrowed code. Just means I need to step up the game and make my profiles better. As for the issue of setting up a sub forum just for pqr, prob not going to happen. yes you'll prob have to bump/spend corecoins/make new threads, but so does everyone else that wishes to sell here.

Finally, I thank all users of pqr, devs/users alike.

I'll still be here working a way on my profiles and I can't wait to see what the future holds for them.