[PQR][PVE]Vachiusa healer profiles

[billybuffalo]

Any raiders use the disc profile?

I use the disc profile and am usually top heals in my group @ 485 ilvl. nothing less than 40-50k hps 27k dps and 30k absorbs, all depending on what boss.

[Ninjaderp]

This is a list of some spells that should be instantly dispelled from the second boss "Horridon's" adds:

Farraki-adds:
Stone Gaze - Spell - World of Warcraft - Dispell instantly

Blazing Sunlight - Spell - World of Warcraft - Dispell instantly

Dino-Mending - Spell - World of Warcraft - Needs to be interrupted

Gurubashi-adds:

Venom Bolt Volley - Spell - World of Warcraft - Needs to be interrupted, not sure if it can be dispelled yet (not enough data)

Drakaki-adds:

Deadly Plague - Spell - World of Warcraft - Dispell instantly

Amani-adds:

Hex of Confusion - Spell - World of Warcraft - Dispell instantly

Fireball - Spell - World of Warcraft - Needs to be interrupted

These spells that needs to be dispelled instantly could be added to the dispell-list if there is any, will be of great help to healers on Horridon!

[tonyzerwak]

Not sure if this was fixed yet, but a few days before 5.2 I was using the druid raiding 25 man profile, I didn't get symbiosis on before the fight started so the roatation kept trying to cast symbiosis while in combat, and failing.

[expunge]

Vach, does it have the ability to use the new solace implementation or is it still just mind bender? *the disc / holy profile that is.

*edit* Nevermind, looked through the code and there it was "solaceInsanity"

After using the holy profile, it doesnt really..do anything? I'm not sure. I'm used to playing disc. It has no reactive healing at all. It doesn't PoM on cd, it doesn't CoH until all hell is breaking loose. I had to basically for it. It was fine on Tsulong though. It healed him just fine but not anyone else in the raid unless I physically did it.

[ganjador]

Just wanted to say I love your MW monk profile. In 5.1 it had me around 102k HPS on Tsulong with almost no over-healing @ 495 ilvl (changed the value of enveloping mist for 4set). Looking forward to trying out both the mist and fist updates for 5.2 tomorrow night in ToT. I'll definitely update with any feedback. Cheers.

[Dimonoff]

It should be added chi wave to MW monk.

[saga3180]

Any reason why the holy pally profile ever uses holy power?

[generalsquid]

I used the MW profile for raiding last night, and while it may be appropriate for LFR etc, it is not a great profile.. I will attempt to provide some constructive criticism. A foreword though is that I use PQR when im feeling lazy, although I am proficient in the manual operation of my mist weaver which is where this feedback comes from. I mention this as I see a lot of posters talking about being “top in LFR “ etc and Im not convinced that that is the level of quality you’re aiming for. I can top LFR with mist weaver using Jab + Tiger Palm exclusively most fights, so wanted to provide some feedback from a different perspective.
I’ve written this in a format covering the abilities from my perspective. Some concepts I cover to first consider (this is in light to the response that you gave to someone advising that Renewing Mists [ReM] isn’t being cast on CD).



1.ReM should cast on CD REGARDLESS of damage being sustained. The reason for this is you want maximum ReM out in anticipation of needing to Uplift.. There should ALWAYS be +5-6 ReM bouncing around for the entire encounter. And it builds Chi.
You don’t want damage to go out to half the raid and only then start spreading ReM, because by the time you get enough ReM up to make uplift worthwhile, most of the damage has been healed. by others and you’re waiting for the next lot of damage to go out. I noticed ReM going out and falling off or consistenly sitting at 3-4 most of the time. ReM is a powerfull preventative tool.
MW raid healing is powerful, but Random at times, as such rolling ReM on CD is the best way to decrease the gap.

Given this, the logic for ReM really should be that it is cast on a player with health deficit but no ReM, then any player with no ReM regardless of Health deficit on CD.
ReM will bounce REGARDLESS to full HP players if there is no appropriate injured player, so its not like you miss anything by keeping it up. This workd because I usually have a full +6 rem on the raid before the pull. The Mana cost is factored into how it operates and keeping it on CD. You effectively regen ,most of the mana back from casting it by the time it is off CD with good gear, even in combat. If you do not keep this on CD, you gimp your potential raid healing significantly. Seriously it’s a huge drop and with 2pc bonus it will be a bigger drop to output if not cas on CD, and bigger again with 4pc (reduces CD of TFT by 10sec - so tft every 35 sec), as 12 2pc boosted boosted ReMs more often = more healing. Overhealing from this spell should not be focused on. It will over heal and you shouldn’t care, the ability is effectively free anyway.



2.This brings me to Thunder Focus Tea (TFT). TFT can be used two ways. A good healer will time TFT with incoming large damage. Enough time to get TFT on a 6 ReM Roll, and enough time to bump up the roll to be +11-12 ReM big with enough time to uplift twice(2GCD – the window effectively being aimed for is about 3-4 seconds). Coding this would require each boss to have special coding, and imo unnecessary. I have found from manual play, that over the course of an encounter, using TFT on CD to keep max ReM increases your overall effective REM healing significantly while not reducing your max Uplift opportunity that much (delta of less than 5% overall healing in most cases)

Therefore TFT logic to meet the second easier standard I mentioned should be cast TFT when chi >=3 and ReM>=6 and then uplift straight away to activate regardless of uplift healing targets or not. This keeps Max ReM up, and allows you to continue to build chi in anticipation of decent size uplifts. TFT Surging mist is nigh on useless outside of Tsulong. Whoever get so low that warrants them needing a TFT infused Surging Mist is about to get bombed by all the healers in the raid (if they don’t, then that’s on the healers collectively being bad)



3.Uplift use looks good. I like the way that there are 2 conditionals that can be changed – The deficit and the number of targets ReM is on that will be affected by uplift. One thing im a little unclear on though is whether the deficit is a collective deficit across the target number or each target must have a deficit of the assigned value – understanding this would be helpful.



4.Building Chi. This just used to be as easy as jabbing and Expel Harm etc. Given the stupid nature of the mana return mechanic introduced to prevent Jab Jab Uplift spam, building chi is now more nuanced. With the soothing mist changes, the most efficient way of building Chi currently is soothing mist (SM), expel harm (EH) on CD and Spinning Crane Kick (SCK) where it will do effective healing. This means that realistically SM should be considered to heal players with as little as 1HP health deficit (even no deficit) up to 3-4 chi to allow a ReM/EH cast to make up another chi and ready one’s self for uplift opportunity. Of course having a pool of Chi is also helpful if a Tank or player takes a big hit that warrants an instant SM and Enveloping mist (EM).



5.Expel Harm (EH) – regardless of what anyone says – EH should be used as a Chi Builder on CD not as an “oh Shit” button. I don’t care what the maths says – operationally the raid has heaps of “oh Shit” buttons to utilise on you should they need to, just like we do for them. Not only that but we already have a bazillion oh shit buttons we can use on ourselves (cocoon, an instant healing surge or EM, thunder rbrew tea, torpedo out of the bad etc). Self-preservation is important, but free chi every 15 sec is better than the heal you get from it. It keeps uplift flowing and chi building. Sometimes you need to step away from the numbers and think of the actual scenario in a raid environment. This is where I think the number crunchers usually fall over, is they’re so focused at whose decimal point is in the right place to realise that from a technical point of view they may be right, but from an operational perspective being right doesn’t always result in being effective. Its also how business works – A level of risk is accepted for a bigger profits – so in this case the risk is you don’t have the heal available, but the benefit is cheap consistent chi which results in more resources available to respond to damage across the raid rather than yourself individually. See how that works?



6.Chi burst – your profile manages this extremely well, thank you 



7.Zen Sphere – One should be cast on CD on a tank and one should be cast on the other tank or a range. The reason for this is having the potential for a zen detonation in both mele and range should the issue ever arise.



8.Surging Mist can be a great chi builder in the right situation, but I think coding that sort of logic would be too difficult, as its really a judgement call that takes into account what you will do with the chi you’re about to gain from it. Otherwise, surging mist really has no place being cast more than once on a tank below 20% while under the effect of Soothing Mist just to stabilize.



9.Fist weaving – given the nature of fistweaving now is less usefull, however there is still great opportunities to use it where boss has a damage modifier debuff or player has a modifier buff like the pools on Jin’Rok the breaker.
This should be a toggle ability imo where for the period of the key press the rotation should just be Jab, Tiger Palm, ReM and EH on CD, blackout Kick (BoK) to keep buff up or if BoK will hit +3 targets, and you have 2 chi + muscle memory (ie after a jab and ReM/EH is cast)



10.The remaining portions of the profile work quite well imo.


Sorry for the long post, I hope the feedback is usefull.

[booisback]

great profiles

[Vachiusa]

This is a list of some spells that should be instantly dispelled from the second boss "Horridon's" adds:

Farraki-adds:
Stone Gaze - Spell - World of Warcraft - Dispell instantly

Blazing Sunlight - Spell - World of Warcraft - Dispell instantly

Dino-Mending - Spell - World of Warcraft - Needs to be interrupted

Gurubashi-adds:

Venom Bolt Volley - Spell - World of Warcraft - Needs to be interrupted, not sure if it can be dispelled yet (not enough data)

Drakaki-adds:

Deadly Plague - Spell - World of Warcraft - Dispell instantly

Amani-adds:

Hex of Confusion - Spell - World of Warcraft - Dispell instantly

Fireball - Spell - World of Warcraft - Needs to be interrupted

These spells that needs to be dispelled instantly could be added to the dispell-list if there is any, will be of great help to healers on Horridon!

Thanks for list. Will add all to my events when new LFR raid open.

Not sure if this was fixed yet, but a few days before 5.2 I was using the druid raiding 25 man profile, I didn't get symbiosis on before the fight started so the roatation kept trying to cast symbiosis while in combat, and failing.

Please lets me know if it still bugged. Thanks

Vach, does it have the ability to use the new solace implementation or is it still just mind bender? *the disc / holy profile that is.

*edit* Nevermind, looked through the code and there it was "solaceInsanity"

After using the holy profile, it doesnt really..do anything? I'm not sure. I'm used to playing disc. It has no reactive healing at all. It doesn't PoM on cd, it doesn't CoH until all hell is breaking loose. I had to basically for it. It was fine on Tsulong though. It healed him just fine but not anyone else in the raid unless I physically did it.

Any reason why the holy pally profile ever uses holy power?

Will check Holy Priest and Holy Paladin when i have more time, thanks for report!

Just wanted to say I love your MW monk profile. In 5.1 it had me around 102k HPS on Tsulong with almost no over-healing @ 495 ilvl (changed the value of enveloping mist for 4set). Looking forward to trying out both the mist and fist updates for 5.2 tomorrow night in ToT. I'll definitely update with any feedback. Cheers.

Thanks, waiting for your real normal raid report.

It should be added chi wave to MW monk.

Yes, will support with next release.

I use the disc profile and am usually top heals in my group @ 485 ilvl. nothing less than 40-50k hps 27k dps and 30k absorbs, all depending on what boss.

Attachment 12944

just thought id show why i love this disc profile

My disc priest faque 480 ilvl healing lfr terrace

Thanks for feedbacks but Disc Priest will have a big change with next release for new haste stat build and more atonement

[Vachiusa]

I used the MW profile for raiding last night, and while it may be appropriate for LFR etc, it is not a great profile.. I will attempt to provide some constructive criticism. A foreword though is that I use PQR when im feeling lazy, although I am proficient in the manual operation of my mist weaver which is where this feedback comes from. I mention this as I see a lot of posters talking about being “top in LFR “ etc and Im not convinced that that is the level of quality you’re aiming for. I can top LFR with mist weaver using Jab + Tiger Palm exclusively most fights, so wanted to provide some feedback from a different perspective.
I’ve written this in a format covering the abilities from my perspective. Some concepts I cover to first consider (this is in light to the response that you gave to someone advising that Renewing Mists [ReM] isn’t being cast on CD).

10.The remaining portions of the profile work quite well imo.


Sorry for the long post, I hope the feedback is usefull.

You are alway welcome with your very helpful feedback. Thank you and Dimonoff for provide cool Monk detail feedbacks!

1.ReM should cast on CD REGARDLESS of damage being sustained. The reason for this is you want maximum ReM out in anticipation of needing to Uplift.. There should ALWAYS be +5-6 ReM bouncing around for the entire encounter. And it builds Chi.
You don’t want damage to go out to half the raid and only then start spreading ReM, because by the time you get enough ReM up to make uplift worthwhile, most of the damage has been healed. by others and you’re waiting for the next lot of damage to go out. I noticed ReM going out and falling off or consistenly sitting at 3-4 most of the time. ReM is a powerfull preventative tool.
MW raid healing is powerful, but Random at times, as such rolling ReM on CD is the best way to decrease the gap.

Given this, the logic for ReM really should be that it is cast on a player with health deficit but no ReM, then any player with no ReM regardless of Health deficit on CD.
ReM will bounce REGARDLESS to full HP players if there is no appropriate injured player, so its not like you miss anything by keeping it up. This workd because I usually have a full +6 rem on the raid before the pull. The Mana cost is factored into how it operates and keeping it on CD. You effectively regen ,most of the mana back from casting it by the time it is off CD with good gear, even in combat. If you do not keep this on CD, you gimp your potential raid healing significantly. Seriously it’s a huge drop and with 2pc bonus it will be a bigger drop to output if not cas on CD, and bigger again with 4pc (reduces CD of TFT by 10sec - so tft every 35 sec), as 12 2pc boosted boosted ReMs more often = more healing. Overhealing from this spell should not be focused on. It will over heal and you shouldn’t care, the ability is effectively free anyway.

Agree with you but i wanna let everyone change RM value through Nova frame up to their gear and their style than i force it to used on cd.

2.This brings me to Thunder Focus Tea (TFT). TFT can be used two ways. A good healer will time TFT with incoming large damage. Enough time to get TFT on a 6 ReM Roll, and enough time to bump up the roll to be +11-12 ReM big with enough time to uplift twice(2GCD – the window effectively being aimed for is about 3-4 seconds). Coding this would require each boss to have special coding, and imo unnecessary. I have found from manual play, that over the course of an encounter, using TFT on CD to keep max ReM increases your overall effective REM healing significantly while not reducing your max Uplift opportunity that much (delta of less than 5% overall healing in most cases)

Therefore TFT logic to meet the second easier standard I mentioned should be cast TFT when chi >=3 and ReM>=6 and then uplift straight away to activate regardless of uplift healing targets or not. This keeps Max ReM up, and allows you to continue to build chi in anticipation of decent size uplifts. TFT Surging mist is nigh on useless outside of Tsulong. Whoever get so low that warrants them needing a TFT infused Surging Mist is about to get bombed by all the healers in the raid (if they don’t, then that’s on the healers collectively being bad)

Will consider adding your advice to TFT condition. BTW, TFT like other cds (for all profiles) only force to use when everything come bad or sure to use, i wanna player manual use it for best saving cds/raid requirement.

3.Uplift use looks good. I like the way that there are 2 conditionals that can be changed – The deficit and the number of targets ReM is on that will be affected by uplift. One thing im a little unclear on though is whether the deficit is a collective deficit across the target number or each target must have a deficit of the assigned value – understanding this would be helpful.

Each target must have a deficit of the assigned value.

4.Building Chi. This just used to be as easy as jabbing and Expel Harm etc. Given the stupid nature of the mana return mechanic introduced to prevent Jab Jab Uplift spam, building chi is now more nuanced. With the soothing mist changes, the most efficient way of building Chi currently is soothing mist (SM), expel harm (EH) on CD and Spinning Crane Kick (SCK) where it will do effective healing.

IMO, SM is Chi gen for Mistweaving and Jab for Fistweaving. Because SCK only generates 1 Chi, if it hits at least 3 targets so i only let it use when no chi for other aoe spells and emergency case.

This means that realistically SM should be considered to heal players with as little as 1HP health deficit (even no deficit) up to 3-4 chi to allow a ReM/EH cast to make up another chi and ready one’s self for uplift opportunity. Of course having a pool of Chi is also helpful if a Tank or player takes a big hit that warrants an instant SM and Enveloping mist (EM).

Yes, already support with version 2.0.01 but not for 1HP. Will do some tests for a big picture of this situation.

5.Expel Harm (EH) – regardless of what anyone says – EH should be used as a Chi Builder on CD not as an “oh Shit” button. I don’t care what the maths says – operationally the raid has heaps of “oh Shit” buttons to utilise on you should they need to, just like we do for them. Not only that but we already have a bazillion oh shit buttons we can use on ourselves (cocoon, an instant healing surge or EM, thunder rbrew tea, torpedo out of the bad etc). Self-preservation is important, but free chi every 15 sec is better than the heal you get from it. It keeps uplift flowing and chi building. Sometimes you need to step away from the numbers and think of the actual scenario in a raid environment. This is where I think the number crunchers usually fall over, is they’re so focused at whose decimal point is in the right place to realise that from a technical point of view they may be right, but from an operational perspective being right doesn’t always result in being effective. Its also how business works – A level of risk is accepted for a bigger profits – so in this case the risk is you don’t have the heal available, but the benefit is cheap consistent chi which results in more resources available to respond to damage across the raid rather than yourself individually. See how that works?

Yes, will add new setting value in Nova frame for EH like RM value.

6.Chi burst – your profile manages this extremely well, thank you 

Its not good for me, just a temporary solution until i find a good new with my bad maths.

7.Zen Sphere – One should be cast on CD on a tank and one should be cast on the other tank or a range. The reason for this is having the potential for a zen detonation in both mele and range should the issue ever arise.

Maybe will add this talent with next release.

8.Surging Mist can be a great chi builder in the right situation, but I think coding that sort of logic would be too difficult, as its really a judgement call that takes into account what you will do with the chi you’re about to gain from it. Otherwise, surging mist really has no place being cast more than once on a tank below 20% while under the effect of Soothing Mist just to stabilize.

You can change it with Nova frame.

9.Fist weaving – given the nature of fistweaving now is less usefull, however there is still great opportunities to use it where boss has a damage modifier debuff or player has a modifier buff like the pools on Jin’Rok the breaker.
This should be a toggle ability imo where for the period of the key press the rotation should just be Jab, Tiger Palm, ReM and EH on CD, blackout Kick (BoK) to keep buff up or if BoK will hit +3 targets, and you have 2 chi + muscle memory (ie after a jab and ReM/EH is cast)

Any feedbacks about my new fistweaving rotation?

PS: Hey, your feedback took me so much time but i REALLY happy to see a helpful feedbacks like yours. Big thanks again!

[generalsquid]

Agree with you but i wanna let everyone change RM value through Nova frame up to their gear and their style than i force it to used on cd.

I tried that, and thats the results i was getting. i changed to 99% and at 100% doesnt seem to work at all. Not sure if this is a bug or a limitation. Keeping this on CD is the primary focus for optimal play for monks of all gear levels. Managing mana comes from managing all the other abilities the monk uses, thats why in my opinion this should be a forced function. If unable to make this forced could you check if the code supports forced cast at 100 value in nova frame? Remember by forcing this you also guarantee 1 chi every 6 sec. considde rit a chi generator with the bonus of hot spread

Will consider adding your advice to TFT condition. BTW, TFT like other cds (for all profiles) only force to use when everything come bad or sure to use, i wanna player manual use it for best saving cds/raid requirement.

Yep thats understandable.

Each target must have a deficit of the assigned value.

Awesome thanks for clarification. I can now tune this to my liking.

IMO, SM is Chi gen for Mistweaving and Jab for Fistweaving. Because SCK only generates 1 Chi, if it hits at least 3 targets so i only let it use when no chi for other aoe spells and emergency case..

yep, that is a simplified way of looking at it, although by simplifying it this much you rely on an incosistant flow of chi for mistweaving and inneficient chi generation for fistweaving.
Jab as a chi generator for fistweaving is not mana eficient as it costs 200% of mana from 5.1. Only way to offset is TP. Fist weaving still requires the keeping up of serpents zeal with BoK which costs 2 chi or using BoK when there are multiple targets to hit- you wouldnt Jab twice to get that chi for BoK for 2 reasons - youve wasted a jab worth of muscle memory and the increased healing you would have gotten from a muscle memory TP. Fist weaving and mistweaving chi generation still requires nuanced chi generation outside of jabbing. this comes from EH and ReM on CD to be optimal. I personally use SCK and cancel the chanel if both are on CD to generate a chi in emergencies.

Yes, already support with version 2.0.01 but not for 1HP. Will do some tests for a big picture of this situation.

coolies - the goal should be to still be generating chi in low/no damage periods to prepare for damage, not build resources when damage starts. Building resources during damage should be as a result of healing damage. By Pre pooling in lul peiods, you get bette rburst as damage goes out.

Yes, will add new setting value in Nova frame for EH like RM value.
.

cool tyvm

Its not good for me, just a temporary solution until i find a good new with my bad maths..

It does a decent job, perhaps if you have it cast at holsite, rather tham player - allows for it to go through a stacked mele more effectively.

You can change it with Nova frame.

Yep i know, was more of a comment. I turn it off :P

Any feedbacks about my new fistweaving rotation?

I did not use it yet. I will have a look over the weekend.

PS: Hey, your feedback took me so much time but i REALLY happy to see a helpful feedbacks like yours. Big thanks again!

All good, i felt given that it was so quickly updated it was worth a look. Last night we killed 7 bosses in ToT and I used the profile for the first few pulls to see what it would do and how it priorities, changed a few values but in the end had to limit what the profile did to allow me to manage most of the abilities.

Thansk for the hard work. Looking forward to seen future updates.

[Dimonoff]

Now the monk profile much better than it was before the patch. Yesterday on durumu, overtaken in ofspec with 500ilvl our heals in ilvl 512 + with 40% overheal. Our maine monk heal lowered his hands after this Profile is missing chi waves and the possibility to use the RM for the full HP when it not on CD more than 2sec.


add to pause http://www.wowhead.com/item=76092



It is necessary to add possibility switch in the battle between Mistscheaving and Fistweaving.

[Vachiusa]

--Recommended update for Holy Priest
-Support new talent Solace and Insanity (recommended talent).
-Fix GH bugs.
-Fix possible morphed spell cause rotation stuck.
-Tweak default setting values.
-Add new setting value for disable auto-target function.
-Fix other bugs.

@generalsquid and Dimonoff: thanks for feedbacks!

[NickGI]

Hi, can you add "Power Word: Solace" to a Disc profile instead "Holy Fire" ?