Perfect Emulator

[Vindicated]

hmm The-Eradicator i'm sorry but piss colored text is a pet peeve of mine and if im not mistaken critisizing every sentence i write is a flame if there ever was one and respectable forums sureley don't allow their members to flame the hell out of each other...

TheSpidey erm poor word choice but what i was meaning to say is that c# was designed for shorting code and making it easier for people to develop visual applications...also c# has more builtin network functionality, look it up

Also all this crap about Trinity in your post The-Eradicator.. this was merely a suggestion thread and not something to talk about all the marvelous features of Trinity..

And these worthless post of critisism just to raise your post count.. honestly get a life and if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it..much less post it

I have been testing SpuriousEMU lately and it seems to be a very good emu except for the fact that it lacks active developers and a community, if they got rid of bugs and converted the command system away from wispering to Warden and to . and # commands, added all the commands that ArcEmu had and that would be the best emu there is lol

True point on the for noobs thing..but many emulators lack a wiki (Spurious for Ex) and compiled help guide because even those who know what they are doing...do not know everything they need to know about an emu they have never tried.

1. Some areas of Spurious are being redone because before it was basically some nasty vb6 code from vbWoW (Like AI)
2. Me and WoWaddict are hoping to continue regular development, as well as possibly some older team members like Clain or CoolManBob. Most of us are having to tackle some IRL stuff, so it is tough for us to work on Spurious.
3. We don't have a Wiki atm because there are more important things like working on the actual emulator :P
4. Spurious has almost no features (Only like AH, mail, basic combat) stuff like that works. Not sure why you are saying it would be best.
5. Compiling Spurious has to be the easiest thing ever. There are no dependencies or anything, just open up the solution file and hit build LOL.

Edit: By the way, MaNGOS is by far the most documented emulator out there, their wiki is very helpful, and their staff is specialized. Now they can actually focus on their main task instead of having to worry about 903492 other things.

[Oceanblack]

Before I get to tackling bit by bit your post I'd like to mention quickly that it's impossible to code the "perfect" emulator because we are not Blizzard developers.

Okay so I have tryed nearly every emulator and each one differs some and some contain features that the others don't...and overall none that i've found so far are what I would call "perfect". Now I realize that nothing is perfect but when it come to hosting a server, you want to make it the best you can for the people and the developers. So here's a summary of the different emulators and their features.

ArcEmu
-Supports lua scripting
-Stable and actively developed
-Written in c++

Stable is an understatement, LUA scripting doesn't mean much because if the community wanted to they could implement this for another emulator. Open source right? Unfortunately nobody is proficient enough to do this and so everyone just talks crap about other emulators because they don't do it for you.

Aspire
-Stable and actively developed; first ascent emu to support 3.1.x
-Stable core scripting support
-Written in c++

What does stable core scripting support mean?

Wcell
-Written in c#
-Scripting support for all Vbasic languages
-Fast and easy to compile
-Network Proficient (coded in c# duh)
-Auto-account creation

Scripting support would apply to all .NET languages I think but I am not sure. All emulators and easy to compile (it's one button and you use the exact same Visual Studio on Windows whether it be in C# or C++). Network proficiency doesn't revolve around the fact that it's written in C#, I am not sure if .NET has a wonderful network system built for your WoW emulator or maybe it's the coders who know what they're doing, if it is the case, then this would apply to C++ as well.

Spurious - btw its alive again heres the link
-Writen in visual basic
-Cluster support

Explain to me the significance of Cluster support and how it helps run your server without flaw in game mechanics and stability.

Trinity/Mangos
-Annoying yellow text command info
-Supposably stable though I hate this type of emulator
-I think it has script reload command (big plus)
-Written in c++

So clearly we see a bias already within your little emulator review. If you hate this type of emulator who says you are in the position to judge anything? MaNGOS is pretty stable compared to Ascent-based emulators, and has much more features completed and implemented than Ascent-based emulators. MaNGOS is one of the first emulators to support patching and it has a huge tight-knit community of core, database and script developers.


Heres my idea:

-Written in c# (faster to compile and better for packet management)

Depends on how you code, I'm not arguing against the language but your reason for choosing that language.

-Support clustering or in other words has better support for running many servers together

Who runs many servers together?

-Supports Lua engine (as well as ArcEmu)

Maybe, you'd just like this for your personal comfort because LUA is already so popular in the community, regardless whether the language would be useful or not for emulator stabiliy and effectiveness.

-Able to reload scripts in-game as a super-administrator command

This would be a nice feature but can be implemented in already written emulators so I don't know what you are waiting for.

-Core scripting and lua scripting are located as external scripting files and are loaded at startup and given the ability to be reloaded without even restarting the server (this is a big plus because it allows for on-the-fly developing so that players can continue playing all the time and development can take place at anytime)

I thought emulators had this by now already...

-Auto-Account creation that ask if you are sure you wanna make the account

What do you mean? I don't know about ArcEmu but MaNGOS not only has accounts already in the database, but there is the ability to add them via your SQL editor or within the console itself.

-sha5 or md5 password hashing for enhanced security

This is already an emulator standard.

-Revised database that is designed specifically by the emulator developers (who knows the core better than the people who wrote it? and better at being bug free)

This is stupid because of course the database is designed by the emu devs because they need it designed their way so that the emulator functions. If you mean they should fill the DB correctly I do not think this is an emu dev's job.

-Developers of the emulator develop easy-setup macros and installers to make it easier for the noobs

Shouldn't be the responsibility of the emu developer but the community.

-No yellow text command list in-game, make it cyan and structured like ArcEmu

This is just bias because you don't like a particular feature. Great thing about open-source is that you can change whatever you want to how you want it to be.

-The marvelous thing about c#.. all static variables in the core can be managed within the game by commands that can be accessed by certain command levels.

I don't know what you mean by this, if you think that C++ emulators cannot work with variables and functions within the emulator through in-game commands then you are wrong. How do you think .addspawn works, etc

-Come with built-in Owner, Administrator, Developer, Gm, Player command levels and make the command access customizable via database.

MaNGOS has this, I don't know about ArcEmu

-Work out multipliers in the core to work for level 80 servers or level 200 servers or level 500 server.. and such

Community responsibility

-Clean and revised code

Clean code is a challenge because you are working with a wide number of developers, but it is generally existant I believe in MaNGOS and WCell

-All tables are able to be reloaded in-game but some tables reload the ui for every character (questionable?)

Reload the UI? What?

-The main thing that many emulators lack.. a noob proof Instruction Manual Readme Guide inside the svn and a very informative wiki including info on making your account-creation page and database features.. the whole 9-yards so that not only is it the best emulator but the easiest to manage and figure out for players and developers.

Community responsibility

Now there are considerable other things that should be included but i have listed some strong points.. and this idea came to me and I'm thinking about coding it.. but interested on what the community thinks. First I gotta finish my C# tutorial tho XD. Constructive critisism is welcomed...lol[/QUOTE]
That's my 2 cents.

I am really looking forward to how WCell turns out but at the moment I prefer MaNGOS above all emu's. I know everyone would just jump ship if it had an LUA engine implemented.

Interesting perspective on the best emu, but I don't think you make good arguments.

[mgX]

heres a hint: lua and .net does NOT match in terms of performance, like REALLY do not match....its like, method executiontime can almost be measured in ms.... We had lua in wcell for some time, and it was removed after we benchmarked it....


and oh yea....clustersupport would only be used by what, 2-5% of the servers out there tops.... It would actually be alot slower to have a cluster running on a single pc (this aint the old unix days, threading is faster then processing...(the more processes over more threads discussion)) due to the IPC involved... You could face massive hangtime as seen on all servers using official Lineage2 serverfiles (item/npclag anyone??).

Now, if one actually wants to make a post, could that person please have at least basic understanding of what hes saying...

[TheSpidey]

heres a hint: lua and .net does NOT match in terms of performance, like REALLY do not match....its like, method executiontime can almost be measured in ms.... We had lua in wcell for some time, and it was removed after we benchmarked it....


and oh yea....clustersupport would only be used by what, 2-5% of the servers out there tops.... It would actually be alot slower to have a cluster running on a single pc (this aint the old unix days, threading is faster then processing...(the more processes over more threads discussion)) due to the IPC involved... You could face massive hangtime as seen on all servers using official Lineage2 serverfiles (item/npclag anyone??).

Now, if one actually wants to make a post, could that person please have at least basic understanding of what hes saying...

If only all people knew their shit like you before posting wrong info..

[mgX]

If only all people knew their shit like you before posting wrong info..

by your sarcasm you are refering to?

[bigjohnson4]

This is probably going to sound like I'm flaming, but basically I will be.

I agree with what The_Eradicator posted first, he's got almost everything figured out and posted it clearly, although I just have to make some points that just make me giggle inside.

It would actually be alot slower to have a cluster running on a single pc

How is this shit possible?

And this one just plain confuses me...

Auto-Account creation that ask if you are sure you wanna make the account

I mean... what are you getting at? Accounts can't be created by just looking at the screen. It also sounds like you just want an account creation page that has an extra javascript pop-up for confirmation.



I just thought I'd point those two out.

[The-Eradicator]

I mean... what are you getting at? Accounts can't be created by just looking at the screen. It also sounds like you just want an account creation page that has an extra javascript pop-up for confirmation

I believe he's saying you just type in an account name and password in the WoW client, and if it doesn't exist it's created.

The problem there would be that you can't make confirmation, so it'd be like "Whoop, typo" *new account* "****, I typed my password wrong, now I need another account. What!?! Account limit? DAMNIT."

[Oceanblack]

How is this shit possible?

I don't know much about clustering but I think it's because you are running multiple cores on one machine.

Then again, if you try clustering with multiple machines it becomes expensive as you are required to buy more servers.

Simply put: no need to cluster for the 2% of the people that would actually use it.

[mager1794]

That's about where I stopped reading your message because you clearly lack sufficient knowledge in this field to effectively suggest anything about it.

Spidey technically with the right coding knowledge and dedicated work a C# emulator could actually be just as good as C++, just because people don't recognize it as that powerful of a language doesn't mean it isn't. Just cause its a easier doesn't mean its weaker ya know.

[Kirth]

-The main thing that many emulators lack.. a noob proof Instruction Manual Readme Guide inside the svn and a very informative

The trouble there is, that idiots do not know how to use Subversion. They use repacks. God forbid.

"Noobs" i.e. "idiots" should not be allowed to set up their own server. Quite some emulation servers are run by complete idiots.

[Confucius]

The trouble there is, that idiots do not know how to use Subversion. They use repacks. God forbid.

"Noobs" i.e. "idiots" should not be allowed to set up their own server. Quite some emulation servers are run by complete idiots.

You're really stupid aren't you? If these "Noobs or "idiots" can't set up their own servers how are they gonna learn to turn into the next great dev that makes a totally new and amazing emulator?...

[The-Eradicator]

You're really stupid aren't you? If these "Noobs or "idiots" can't set up their own servers how are they gonna learn to turn into the next great dev that makes a totally new and amazing emulator?...

Noob != Newb

A newb (newbie) is internet slang for newcomer. Noob is a pejorative term derived from newb that used to describe someone who isn't capable of learning or disrupts activity (thus, wasting people's time).

Thus, a newb is fine, a noob is not. A newb can figure it out, and then learn from their mistakes. A noob would be someone who wants to just download a repack, does not care how it works, and expects to have a server with a thousand players on it in a day or two. In short, no, no-one wants to see more noobs.

[Henkke]

You're really stupid aren't you? If these "Noobs or "idiots" can't set up their own servers how are they gonna learn to turn into the next great dev that makes a totally new and amazing emulator?...

You don't just magically "learn to be a great new make totally new amazing emulator"


Anyone who is really capable of making patches for emulator's is very much capable of following the very precise guides on each emulator's forums.

Not to mention that you do not even need to have a server up to develop for it, since it's only used to test your patches (Which is why it is preferred to have 1 local one up, but if you have friends who have server with alot of people in it, you can use that to test patches, thus get more results)

[TheSpidey]

by your sarcasm you are refering to?

Perhaps you misunderstood me; I'll be blunt. You know stuff. Unfortunately, most other people don't.

[red star]

Here's a fantastic idea: code a server in C.
Unless, you're like...a mediocre coder, then go ahead and work it in C++, or C#.