DISCUSSION: Ultimate Bot

[jjaa]

@ jjaa,

what is for example with fake Casts, the bot has to decide wheter to "kick" or "cc" in a certain time Frame. But has also have control about his own GCD and maybe have to cancel a spell cast by himself.

- how do you want to tell your bot is a cast a fake cast ...

but this is just my opinion and maybe i'm wrong.

sincery spud

If i understand you correctly. This is a situation were i think the bot has a big advantage. The bot can calculate to the millisecond. The bot can easily determine when a spell has started casting and how long that spell will take to cast. If the spell has been casting for >50% of it cast time then assume that its a real spell and attempt to interpret it. For the GDC, its all about timing and mathematics. Which computers excel at.

[2dgreengiant]

jjaa has won this one. A bot can easily calculate what moves are possible and even some logic behind say "Oh player X has a curse and he is class Y so friend Z will cast remove curse" things like that. Obv it would make the bot files huge in terms of al the logic but a bot can out do any human. Have none of you see Terminator?

[spudstar99]

Yes for real, he can easily calculate it, but what if the other team now go over 50% with the fake cast ... they would "control" the bot.

This is where a maschine loose. because stuff is hard coded. thats why maschines often win in chess but now always. They are hard coded.

has noone seen 2001: A Space Odyssey??

sincery spud

[~OddBall~]

yes because a computer with amazing hardware suddenly means it knows everything about WoW and is the best bot in existance....Logic

[jjaa]

Yes for real, he can easily calculate it, but what if the other team now go over 50% with the fake cast ... they would "control" the bot.

This is where a maschine loose. because stuff is hard coded. thats why maschines often win in chess but now always. They are hard coded.

has noone seen 2001: A Space Odyssey??

sincery spud

You could always use fuzzy logic. That was just an example of using a hard-coded value. Another simpler method would be to not cast the interpret until the last possible moment (taking into account delays with the cast sending the msg to server ect.). If the spell stop event occurs before the last possible moment occurs. Ignore the spell.

[Seminko]

Yes for real, he can easily calculate it, but what if the other team now go over 50% with the fake cast ... they would "control" the bot.

This is where a maschine loose. because stuff is hard coded. thats why maschines often win in chess but now always. They are hard coded.

Saying everything is hardcoded is no argument whatsoever. Everything can be accounted for so everything can be (as you say) hardcoded! Would it take a very very long time? Yes! But if put a great deal of time and rescourses there is no situation in an arena match that a (properly made) bot couldn't handle. Period!

Nevertheless I've read about an interrupt bot and from what I've read so far it can account for any latency and literally kick EVERYTHING you want it to kick... And thats a bot made by wowfans. Imagine a wow bot made by a gang of scientists... Just sayin...

[spudstar99]

@ seminko - Don't compare the "Kick-bot" with the logic we are discussing about. Yes it kicks spells you define .. but there are many thinks to consider which are far apart from kick when ever xy is cast.

@ Jjaa, so i play one match against the bot .. oh the bot kickz in the last 0.3 milliseconds of my cast .. yeah well .. then we also can control it, but it is much more ineffectiv to fake cast. But also when you play which such short delays. you can run in sutations where the server don't response fast enough. But yeah, with enough time and knowledge a maschine can get very op but not to 100%.

maybe i'm to positiv about human skills. But who mentioned Terminator?! Was the last Film not about Human winning over the SKYNET??

sincery spud

[2dgreengiant]

@ seminko - Don't compare the "Kick-bot" with the logic we are discussing about. Yes it kicks spells you define .. but there are many thinks to consider which are far apart from kick when ever xy is cast.

@ Jjaa, so i play one match against the bot .. oh the bot kickz in the last 0.3 milliseconds of my cast .. yeah well .. then we also can control it, but it is much more ineffectiv to fake cast. But also when you play which such short delays. you can run in sutations where the server don't response fast enough. But yeah, with enough time and knowledge a maschine can get very op but not to 100%.

maybe i'm to positiv about human skills. But who mentioned Terminator?! Was the last Film not about Human winning over the SKYNET??

sincery spud

they won against that one section. Skynet took over the world so they got a LONG way to go. And that only happened cos that robot who was part man still had some human emotions otherwise John Connor would be dead due to his heart failing

[Seminko]

@ seminko - Don't compare the "Kick-bot" with the logic we are discussing about. Yes it kicks spells you define .. but there are many thinks to consider which are far apart from kick when ever xy is cast.

I didn't get the meaning of your response... Kick bot kicks spells making fake casts totally non existent which makes your argument of fake casting irrelevant... More so, a computer can calculate how much dmg you and your team can do after a kick and decide if a kick is relevant in a situation.

[spudstar99]

but a fake cast is used to get kicked in a school of spells you don't need in the near future. So kick bot kickz when the enemy maybe wants you to kick, so that you loose your kick ability until it is ready again.

Also it can't realy calculate in the future. It can predict the future. you can't not now what the enemy is doing in the next moment. maybe change target, maybe try to kite ....

sincery spud

[irreplaceable]

Anything a human does, a computer can do more effectively if programmed correctly, with statistical analysis it should be able to assess any situation and choose the response with the highest chance of making it win.
It should also be able to change tactics on the fly in order to effectively counter almost any enemy move. in 5v5 arena having a team of 5 computer-controlled characters vs 5 human-controlled characters, All ten with gear of their own choosing, the computer-controlled characters would be able to exploit every mistake made by the humans, they would have better communication with less delay because they don't have to 'say' anything.

All this assumes that the developers has programmed it with optimal logic for every possible situation.

[ahf620]

Now.. to what's really important..
How much would that intelligent bot cost?

[ev1]

Super small example of a scripted encounter or "bot" if you will, ToC 10/25 - against the opposite faction. Remember how difficult it was the first few times? Granted it got easier when people learned what to cc and mechanics, but at first i'm certain most of you wiped when the content was first revealed. And granted they hit harder and have massive hp, but regardless - it was an example of player versus the unpredictable (in some senses)

[Baaja]

Now, if we could just reverse engineer that encounter and start adding variables to it...then you got yourself a pvp bot

[Syltex]

Super small example of a scripted encounter or "bot" if you will, ToC 10/25 - against the opposite faction. Remember how difficult it was the first few times? Granted it got easier when people learned what to cc and mechanics, but at first i'm certain most of you wiped when the content was first revealed. And granted they hit harder and have massive hp, but regardless - it was an example of player versus the unpredictable (in some senses)

Now, if we could just reverse engineer that encounter and start adding variables to it...then you got yourself a pvp bot

Lol, the behavior behind the encounter wasn't anything near that complex that we are talking about.