Softban Does Not Equal Immediate Perm Ban (New Theory on How You Get Perm Banned)

[overdoased]

This is all speculation but it seems reasonable given the anecdotal evidence.

I make the following educated guesses:

1) You are flagged the minute you use RocketAPI with incorrect hash. Getting all of the unknowns solved and a perfect hash is a daunting almost impossible task.
No botmaker has improved enough on RocketAPI(most just use it as is) so you are flagged the first time you log into the Niantic API outside of the client.

2) It is unknown when Niantic decides to Perm Ban flagged accounts, it is delayed, seemingly random, and they do seem to do it in waves with pauses and then a wave of bans over several days. It does not currently coincide with client updates or server side API updates.

3) Niantic introduces security measures client side, but does not implement them(turn them on server side) right away. (CAPTCHA, NEW UK6, DEPRECATING ALL OLD CLIENTS)

4) All this safe botting stuff , humanize settings etc etc etc is likely placebo. However fast you level up, whether you get 100% IV or snipe or teleport is irrelevant you will get banned anyway just for being detected on first login.

5) Soft Bans seem unrelated to Perm Bans (This is a big one). They do not increase the speed or likelihood of a Perm ban. Even if you get softbanned every day for hitting the Pokemon Catch or PokeStop Limit you do not get Perm Banned until they do another Perm Ban Wave. See #1 you were flagged once again the first second you logged in so doing it slowly and safely is just giving false hope.


Please feel free to refute my theory, I would imagine this would not be too popluar with the bot devs as it invalidates most of these "NEW HUMANLIKE SLOWDOWN" features but nonetheless it fits all of the reports of bans that I know of and the current pause on perm bans that has been going on over the last week or so.

First of all, I'm not from USA and I don't speak english very well, so be patient.

Some of your observations are absolutely correct. I'll add my opinion based on my reading of inumerous depoiments in foruns around the world:

1) You are absolutely right: they actually can actually flag the account on the first logging. But their programmers are focused on lauching the game on every countries. They are not focused on stoping bots yet. That's the reason i always say "they are not dealing with bots. They are dealing with botters". They don't want to make any changes on game API for while, because it would bring bugs and lots of problems that they wouldn't resolve.

2) They are doing ban waves because of the #1. They don't have any routine implemented yet and they don't want to do this now, because the game is still being develope and launched. They prefer focus on fixing the track system, for example. So, they ban the accounts "manually". Not one by one, but running a program that deactivate the flagged accounts. When they run the program, the accounts flagged are banned. But it seems that the supposed program works with some conditions, for example, don't ban account until it reaches an determinated amount of XP or level. Makes sense if we think about the great number of accounts. I guess this program runs a little bit slowly... they may need 3 ou 4 days running the application, so it can found all flagged accounts.

3) I found that don't fight in gymns is crucial for not being banned. I tested it in 10 accounts. Botted 20. 10 with gym and 10 without gym. All the first 10 were banned. THe others are in the level 19 not, without ban. I think that Niantic lets you go certain level IF you do not fight ins gyms, but it will ban you fastes if you are fighting, because this makes the game unfair - makes sense too: if you bot bu not fight, the others players will not see the game as unfair, since they can't see your progress.

4) 100% agreed.

5) 100% agreed.

[KantTouchThis]

Might just be lucky but my main account, only level 26, which I botted on briefly is fine.. 5+ other accounts all banned (lvl 28-34), All very non-human like (thousands of pokemon caught, barely any distance traveled). Main account was all legit, except when I botted for a few hours using the same bot all my banned accounts used. I do not think they flag your account automatically upon one login or I'd probably be banned by now.

[cl3537]

2) They are doing ban waves because of the #1. They don't have any routine implemented yet and they don't want to do this now, because the game is still being develope and launched. They prefer focus on fixing the track system, for example. So, they ban the accounts "manually". Not one by one, but running a program that deactivate the flagged accounts. When they run the program, the accounts flagged are banned. But it seems that the supposed program works with some conditions, for example, don't ban account until it reaches an determinated amount of XP or level. Makes sense if we think about the great number of accounts. I guess this program runs a little bit slowly... they may need 3 ou 4 days running the application, so it can found all flagged accounts.

I don't think the evidence supports this theory. As we all know its very easy to reach level 20 with a bot in a very short amount of time (it can take an hour or two). Even so I've seen reports of users banned at levels far below this. The creation date of your account has a lot more to do with whether you were banned in the last wave(August 20 or so was the ending time) with newer accounts by creation date surviving. I don't know of many accounts that were permbanned if their creation date was August 21 or later except for map scanners.

3) I found that don't fight in gymns is crucial for not being banned. I tested it in 10 accounts. Botted 20. 10 with gym and 10 without gym. All the first 10 were banned. THe others are in the level 19 not, without ban. I think that Niantic lets you go certain level IF you do not fight ins gyms, but it will ban you fastes if you are fighting, because this makes the game unfair - makes sense too: if you bot bu not fight, the others players will not see the game as unfair, since they can't see your progress.

I also can't say I have seen any correlation with this theory either, as I've seen dozens of accounts banned that never touched a gym.

[cl3537]

Might just be lucky but my main account, only level 26, which I botted on briefly is fine.. 5+ other accounts all banned (lvl 28-34), All very non-human like (thousands of pokemon caught, barely any distance traveled). Main account was all legit, except when I botted for a few hours using the same bot all my banned accounts used. I do not think they flag your account automatically upon one login or I'd probably be banned by now.

What is the account creation date of your unbanned accounts? As I wrote above anything after August 21(not sure of the exact date but certainly 7 days back) is likely is safe no matter what you have done or which bot you have used.

[KantTouchThis]

What is the account creation date of your unbanned accounts? As I wrote above anything after August 21(not sure of the exact date but certainly 7 days back) is likely is safe no matter what you have done or which bot you have used.

Ooh okay I missed that, unbanned account was created day or two after the app released.

[overdoased]

I don't think the evidence supports this theory. As we all know its very easy to reach level 20 with a bot in a very short amount of time (it can take an hour or two). Even so I've seen reports of users banned at levels far below this. The creation date of your account has a lot more to do with whether you were banned in the last wave(August 20 or so was the ending time) with newer accounts by creation date surviving. I don't know of many accounts that were permbanned if their creation date was August 21 or later except for map scanners.



I also can't say I have seen any correlation with this theory either, as I've seen dozens of accounts banned that never touched a gym.

The language is really a problem for me. I'll try to explain better.

What I'm saying is that they are banning not only because of bot. To bot is ONE of the conditions necessary for the perma ban. I don't know what are the conditions, except for the relevance of fighting in gym. This will surely make you be banned early than people that didn't figured as gym leader.

I'm convinced that another condition is the level.

For example, an algorithm (in my opinion, of course, based in some condition that they may use).

"If botflag=true AND PlayerLevel>21 AND NumOfGymCaught>10 AND PokemonSniped>15 AND DateOfStart<10 days

Then Ban

Else not Ban"

So, if the player fill the condition, he'll be banned. If it fails in one of the conditions, he will not be banned. That's why people talk about "lucky"... They bot 20 accounts, but 1 is not banned, and the others 20 are. The one not banned didn't satisfied all conditions necessary for ban.

[tumyeto]

For example, an algorithm (in my opinion, of course, based in some condition that they may use).

"If botflag=true AND PlayerLevel>21 AND NumOfGymCaught>10 AND PokemonSniped>15 AND DateOfStart<10 days

Then Ban

Else not Ban"

So, if the player fill the condition, he'll be banned. If it fails in one of the conditions, he will not be banned. That's why people talk about "lucky"... They bot 20 accounts, but 1 is not banned, and the others 20 are. The one not banned didn't satisfied all conditions necessary for ban.

regarding your algorithm example, what's the frequency of this? especially the "NumOfGymCaught" and "PokemonSniped" do you think this on daily basis?
I am somehow agree and thinking this is the way how they're "determining" accounts to be banned.

[mariogitu]

regarding your algorithm example, what's the frequency of this? especially the "NumOfGymCaught" and "PokemonSniped" do you think this on daily basis?
I am somehow agree and thinking this is the way how they're "determining" accounts to be banned.

only God and Niantic knows

[yoyos33]

That's simple Why Niantic doesn't want to ban immediately after a login:
So we cannot chain login on different accounts with different params until we're not banned..

[cl3537]

The language is really a problem for me. I'll try to explain better.

What I'm saying is that they are banning not only because of bot. To bot is ONE of the conditions necessary for the perma ban. I don't know what are the conditions, except for the relevance of fighting in gym. This will surely make you be banned early than people that didn't figured as gym leader.

I'm convinced that another condition is the level.

For example, an algorithm (in my opinion, of course, based in some condition that they may use).

"If botflag=true AND PlayerLevel>21 AND NumOfGymCaught>10 AND PokemonSniped>15 AND DateOfStart<10 days

Then Ban

Else not Ban"

So, if the player fill the condition, he'll be banned. If it fails in one of the conditions, he will not be banned. That's why people talk about "lucky"... They bot 20 accounts, but 1 is not banned, and the others 20 are. The one not banned didn't satisfied all conditions necessary for ban.

We are engaged in speculation but yours has not enough data to support it. You won't be able to support it now anyway, Niantic has stopped perm bans for almost two weeks. You will never know why in the next banwave why some accounts got banned or when they got flagged but we can say for sure that accounts get banned even if they just use safe settings no gyms, teleporting, sniping and < level 20.