[New Rule] No Fake ID threads / Services.

[!iMacroMage!]

Cypher: No scamming is acceptable. However, topics that explain how people HAVE been scammed in order to have a better understanding of how to prevent being scammed yourself are allowed, should be allowed, and are a big help. Otherwise, the rest of the scam topics can gtfo mmowned.

We're not in the business of scamming people, we're in the business of enjoying a virtual game in which we have a better understanding of how to exploit and get a better advantage (helpful to those who don't have a lot of time on their hands).

[Parog]

Stop trying to distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable scamming. Whether the person looses a tangible item or not is irrelevant. Theft is theft, so stop trying to justify it, either outlaw scamming on the site outright (because theft, identity theft, unlawful access to people's computers/accounts/etc, and everything else that goes along with scamming IS illegal -- not to mention just plain fraud, something which is illegal and that pretty much all of scamming encompasses) or just leave it alone.

As soon as you say "this is fine but this isn't" you draw the line between what is 'acceptable' in terms of theft and what isn't. Whether that is the intent or not it WILL happen and its not something I really think that should be done.

Well, this thread derailed a bit, but, as far as MMOwned goes, should we allow people to ask for fake IDs / make fake ID services?

I wasn't trying to justify what is acceptable and what isn't. I don't approve of scamming whatsoever. There's nothing I can do to remove it from MMOwned altogether but I'd like to see a line being drawn somewhere.

[Christina]

Im going to go ahead an break the high rep streak with my opinion: Christina3d i cannot stand how stupid what you said is. Just because someone is looking to get something doesnt mean you have to give it to them because they can get it any where else. For example: Your a parent, your kid wants to smoke pot. They want and will try to get it anyway. Does this mean that you would give your child the pot? Or would you tell them it is bad and teach them about why they shouldnt smoke?

Also i completely agree i think that anything that has to do with non virtual good stealing should be allowed, including phishers and ingame scams.
This may seem "ludicrous" but i believe that anything that could get a person in legal trouble should be kept away from this site, and even maybe demote anything that may get someone in legal trouble

~Oppochaos

Your at the wrong website if your talking about morals.

Stop trying to distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable scamming. Whether the person looses a tangible item or not is irrelevant. Theft is theft, so stop trying to justify it, either outlaw scamming on the site outright (because theft, identity theft, unlawful access to people's computers/accounts/etc, and everything else that goes along with scamming IS illegal -- not to mention just plain fraud, something which is illegal and that pretty much all of scamming encompasses) or just leave it alone.

As soon as you say "this is fine but this isn't" you draw the line between what is 'acceptable' in terms of theft and what isn't. Whether that is the intent or not it WILL happen and its not something I really think that should be done.

I couldn't agree more. The only reason I'm so persistent on responding to posts on this thread is because if something like this went through it would be a domino effect of what is acceptable and what isn't. This would destroy the site.

Everything is immoral on this site, whether or not it's illegal is irrelevant.

Cypher: No scamming is acceptable. However, topics that explain how people HAVE been scammed in order to have a better understanding of how to prevent being scammed yourself are allowed, should be allowed, and are a big help. Otherwise, the rest of the scam topics can gtfo mmowned.

We're not in the business of scamming people, we're in the business of enjoying a virtual game in which we have a better understanding of how to exploit and get a better advantage (helpful to those who don't have a lot of time on their hands).

Once again, wrong website! You're looking for hellokittyadvertureisland, it's that way ------>

Well, this thread derailed a bit, but, as far as MMOwned goes, should we allow people to ask for fake IDs / make fake ID services?

I wasn't trying to justify what is acceptable and what isn't. I don't approve of scamming whatsoever. There's nothing I can do to remove it from MMOwned altogether but I'd like to see a line being drawn somewhere.

There's far worse things then the ID's going on IMHO. Why stop there?

[Parog]

We'll stop here because it is my suggestion and you are derailing the thread / trolling. If you have an idea of your own, then by all mean, suggest it. Don't derail a thread as KuR is just going to look at it and go "F this" no matter if its the idea of the century or not. I'm having the thread cleaned soon, until then, unless you have something constructive to say ABOUT THE SUGGESTION, please do so. Otherwise, refrain from posting.

[Christina]

We'll stop here because it is my suggestion and you are derailing the thread / trolling. If you have an idea of your own, then by all mean, suggest it. Don't derail a thread as KuR is just going to look at it and go "F this" no matter if its the idea of the century or not. I'm having the thread cleaned soon, until then, unless you have something constructive to say ABOUT THE SUGGESTION, please do so. Otherwise, refrain from posting.

I don't think anything needs to be cleaned up, you touched a difficult subject. Which is what's TOO wrong for MMOwned. People are entitled to their opinions.

Only posts I can think of that could be deleted would be this one, the one it's quoting, and the one where I agreed with scrubs.

[jdismeuc]

Im going to go ahead an break the high rep streak with my opinion: Christina3d i cannot stand how stupid what you said is. Just because someone is looking to get something doesnt mean you have to give it to them because they can get it any where else. For example: Your a parent, your kid wants to smoke pot. They want and will try to get it anyway. Does this mean that you would give your child the pot? Or would you tell them it is bad and teach them about why they shouldnt smoke?

Also i completely agree i think that anything that has to do with non virtual good stealing should be allowed, including phishers and ingame scams.
This may seem "ludicrous" but i believe that anything that could get a person in legal trouble should be kept away from this site, and even maybe demote anything that may get someone in legal trouble

~Oppochaos

Of course not, I'd give them the weed.

No but seriously, you say that "anything that has to do with non virtural goods should be allowed, including phishers and in-game scams." 90% of those phishers and in-game scams are for gold or the account... thats a virtual good..

[latruwski]

I have not really a problem with scamming section, only full scammed accs are something i don't really like... (imagine that you lose your acc fully)
Why? Simply becuz over half of the threads posted have fake GCs, Accs... And then there are the threads with scammed usernames and pw... i don't bother that, cuz the owner can just recall it...
I don't really like full scammed accounts (though i don't hate them too)
As far as the ID thing, it is a hard subject and i see your point... i agree with you
Also scamming has become so bad on mmowned that members start to scam eachother '-.- what is fun in that?

[Oppochaos]

Your at the wrong website if your talking about morals.

Sure im talking about morals. I disaprove with scamming. There is plenty on this site, for example the exploit section which (for the most part) doesnt effect people in a negitive way. I know (as Parog has said in the quote below) that scamming will not be removed from the site, but a line must be drawn, we cant be suggesting things that are going to get people in real trouble.

Well, this thread derailed a bit, but, as far as MMOwned goes, should we allow people to ask for fake IDs / make fake ID services?

I wasn't trying to justify what is acceptable and what isn't. I don't approve of scamming whatsoever. There's nothing I can do to remove it from MMOwned altogether but I'd like to see a line being drawn somewhere.

Back on topic: Because of what ive said i think that a line must be drawn and that fake IDs shouldnt be allow.

Of course not, I'd give them the weed.

No but seriously, you say that "anything that has to do with non virtural goods should be allowed, including phishers and in-game scams." 90% of those phishers and in-game scams are for gold or the account... thats a virtual good..

Oh im sorry XD. Typo. I meant to say "anything that has to do with virtural goods should be allowed, including phishers and in-game scams." instead of "anything that has to do with non virtural goods should be allowed, including phishers and in-game scams."

~Oppochaos

[gameclub]

God damn, mind your own business dude. If people are stupid enough to use a fake ID, let them. I bet you and 90% of the people have done atleast 1 thing that deserves some time in the slammer. Again, it's none of your business what people do with a fake ID, so don't QQ about it.

[Kubiatsu]

I understand where Parog is coming from and all of you saying 'mind your own business it's their decision' that's not the problem, its the MMOwned image side more likely, after all it is an 'MMO' website and not a fraud/internet crime site.. atleast that is what it was originally.

[Allaway]

I understand where Parog is coming from and all of you saying 'mind your own business it's their decision' that's not the problem, its the MMOwned image side more likely, after all it is an 'MMO' website and not a fraud/internet crime site.. atleast that is what it was originally.

Well if that was the case then just close the scamming section because even though it does teach people on how to protect themselves, it teaches more people on how to rip others off. Obviously the sites image has never really been something people have ever tried to protect, and if you are trying to protect the image of the site you would have specified all scams should be deleted/banned. I mean no offense to anyone because to me this is no different between calling and saying you are John Doe and you want your account back either way it's identity theft.

[Parog]

Well if that was the case then just close the scamming section because even though it does teach people on how to protect themselves, it teaches more people on how to rip others off. Obviously the sites image has never really been something people have ever tried to protect, and if you are trying to protect the image of the site you would have specified all scams should be deleted/banned. I mean no offense to anyone because to me this is no different between calling and saying you are John Doe and you want your account back either way it's identity theft.

I would like to remind all of you of the reason why the scam section was removed from the front page.

Think about this before you post facts that you make up.

[Christina]

http://www.mmowned.com/forums/wow-scams/183753-flawlessly-epic-really-smooth-account-scam-all-info-will-changed-yours.html

This is really hypocritical of you.

[Parog]

http://www.mmowned.com/forums/wow-scams/183753-flawlessly-epic-really-smooth-account-scam-all-info-will-changed-yours.html

This is really hypocritical of you.

I use the scamming section to inform people of what can be done if you are not careful. This exact thing happened to my account, hence why I posted it. Whether someone uses it or not, I'm putting information out there in hopes that no one will have to go through the same things as I did.

The thread is about the website allowing people to obtain fake IDs through the means of this website. Once again, stay on topic.

[BonutDot]

Stop trying to distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable scamming. Whether the person looses a tangible item or not is irrelevant.

It is to the legal system.

"He stole 200,000 gold from me in world of warcraft" will elicit a sound "so what?" from a judge. "He stole my $1000 TV" lands you in jail for grand theft.

Theft is theft, so stop trying to justify it, either outlaw scamming on the site outright (because theft, identity theft, unlawful access to people's computers/accounts/etc, and everything else that goes along with scamming IS illegal -- not to mention just plain fraud, something which is illegal and that pretty much all of scamming encompasses) or just leave it alone.

Morally, yes both are equal. However, the legality of scamming accounts/gold from people is very vague at the moment, which is probably why it can be discussed so openly.

Once a site owner allows such discussions to go on (comparing methods, giving away scammed "goods", etc.) they can be held liable for what goes on should one of the members get caught. The investigation and punishing of real life scams are much better defined than the gray area of intangible goods (and arguably, ownership of accounts/gold which blizzard does not release to the customer).

It's a giant legal pile of shit.