WoW Lawyer Question and Answer

[Verye]

Hey everyone, this is the WoW Lawyer here. For those who don't know me, here's my stickied guide in the WoW General section: http://www.mmowned.com/forums/wow-ge...rd-policy.html

And to anyone who's confused about my name: I'm not a real lawyer. It's just a title I use, like I'm a lawyer for Blizzard "law". And I used to have an unbanning service, so it'd be like defending people in "court".

Anyway, I tried to set up a Q & A (question and answer) in the guide, but I ran out of space so I cut it. I decided, though, that I should try and start it up again.

Okay, here's how it works:

I've been a volunteer helper for Blizzard's WoW Customer Service forum for a long time. Because of that, some personal experiences, a lot of studying, and a lot of research, I know a lot about Blizzard policy. Their rules, their methods, how they ban, when they ban, why they ban, where they ban, how to get unbanned, etc. Because of this, naturally, I also know a lot about scamming. Not only do I know about the possible consequences of scamming, but I myself am a good scammer, as I've been doing scamming on Markee and other places for about a long time, too.

So, to sum it up, I'm an experienced scammer, and I know a lot about Blizzard. The thing is, all of my experience has to do with WoW US. If you have any questions relating to WoW EU (and therefore Blizard EU), then I may not be able to help you.

All answers you see in this thread are regarding WoW US accounts. If you play on WoW EU, some of this info may not be correct for you. WoW US and EU policies have many differences.

I'll be answering any questions you have about scamming or Blizzard in general. They can be silly, minor, useless, or stupid questions, or they can be serious and important questions. As long as they pertain to scamming or Blizzard, I'll answer them.

As people ask questions, I'll try to update the post under this one with the questions and answers.

Anyway, let's begin! Someone ask a question.

Questions & Answers

Can Blizzard log regular trades? That's how I usually launder my scam money and I just want to make sure that it's a clean method. Also, is it cleaner to delete and remake a scamming alt multiple times or just once? Finally, how long does it take for Blizzard to get on a scam case like the COD scam? I just want to make sure I don't have to wake up at 5AM to check for them and launder the money in case the GMs can catch me that quickly.

Yes, they can.

Aight, I'll quote my thread I made recently because I got different answers

This is all for EU.


Thanks in advance Verye ;D

Edit:
So my question is really, do I need anything else than the account name/password and the last name of the account to transfer a character from that account to another account with the same last name.

No. All you need is their account name, password, and last name. There is no email confirmation.

See, when you do a transfer, you will get an email saying that you need to finalize your transfer, but you do not have to finalize the transfer through email. It's just a notice. This means that whoever owns the email will see their account being messed with, but yeah, you do not need to have possession of an account's email to transfer characters off of it.

If I log to scammed account with same IP as my own account, can it lead to my main account to be closed?

No, unless you've been logging onto dozens or hundreds of scammed accounts.

I got banned some itme ago for camming, what is the chance i get my account back.
How would it be easyest to get it unbanned, (eu wow)

The only possible way you can get an account unbanned, US or EU, is sending an email saying you were hacked. The key is to only barely mention the ban; the email you send is supposed to be a help request sent because you got hacked. Blizzard needs to read it and immediately believe you got hacked, then they work from there. You can read more about this in my stickied guide in the WoW General section.

are there any cases of acc's being unbanned after the 5/20/2008 ban wave?

Yes. Read my thread on the matter here: http://www.mmowned.com/forums/bots-p...-ban-wave.html

This explains the ban wave and how you can try to get yourself unbanned.

In reality, the chances are quite low. If you perform an action (such as botting) on your own account, then they typically will not unban it. On the other hand, activites involving other people logging onto your account, including powerleveling, honor farming, and account renting, often result in pretty high chances of getting that account unbanned.

So, what are the chances of Blizzard catching me? Is my laundering clean or not? It's not good for me if Blizz can log the regular trades but I'd like to know what my chances are of getting caught or not are.

EDIT: Also, how quickly does Blizzard get to each scam case? And do they investigate every scam thoroughly, or do the GMs just give the money/items back?

The answer is a bit...complicated. I took a bit of time writing this, so prepare for a long read.

In a perfect world, every single laundering case would result in the perpretator getting caught.

The biggest discrepancy among investigation that I've seen with Blizzard is gold laundering, though.

As an example:

The WoW US Customer Service Forum has 8 GMs. They are hand-picked senior GMs who have been working with Blizzard for a long time.

GM Syndri, who has been working on the forums for a while, too, made a post regarding this a long time ago.

Unfortunately, I cannot find this post, but it was where someone claimed they were banned for no reason, and then Syndri explained how the person had scammed a char and was trying to launder the gold. She said that all the tricks he used (creating, deleting, and re-creating chars with the same name, using the AH, etc.) did not work.

Why, then, do so many people get away with scamming and laundering gold?

I couldn't tell you. The only possible explanation, really, is that some Account Administration employees (and forum GMs) are more competent than others.

Either way though, no matter what you do, you are always at risk when trying to scam and launder gold.

Multiple GMs have said specifically, though, that deleting and re-creating chars with the same name does not help in the slightest. So, I'd recommend you don't bother doing it all.

As for response times...let me explain Blizzard's hierarchy and how tickets move through their system.

When you submit a ticket, you are instantly placed into a queue. There are then thousands of GMs (each GM responding to tickets from a multitude of servers; it is likely that GMs are assigned to battlegroups) who are answering these tickets in the order that they are received.

As the queue splinters off, each ticket will then land into a specific GM's "inbox". This is signified with a message "your ticket will be serviced soon". Depending on how many tickets are currently in that GM's line, and depending how complex each ticket's issue is, it could be anywhere from 5 minutes to 3+ hours before the GM actually gets to your ticket.

So, he reads it. If he sees that it is a report that someone was scammed, he will ask a few questions and then instantly escalate the ticket to the Specialist department. There are many different types of Specialists, and it's fairly safe to say that the Specialists who investigate scams are also members of Account Administration, and are therefore responsible for banning (and possibly unbanning) players.

GMs can only hand out warnings, suspend people for 3 hours, and in some cases, for 24 hours. They usually deal with minor issues like swearing, harassment, and zone disruption. They are the entry level customer service representatives; anything more complicated, they pass up to the Specialists. Account Administration are the only ones with the power to administer 48-hour, 72-hour, and perma bans. They deal with the major reports, like scamming, botting, exploiting, hacking, etc.

The Specialists have an entirely different queue of their own. This queue is typically longer, as each Specialist needs to invest an incredible amount of time into each investigation. Or rather, they're supposed to.

It is impossible to tell you precisely when a scam will begin to truly be investigated. It depends on the amount of queues a GM has, the complexities of the GM's tickets, and the Specialist's queue.

They, meaning the GMs and the Specialists, answer each report in the order they are received, which on some days can be quickly, and on some days can be very slowly. They do investigate each case, but as I have been saying earlier, some Specialists are better at investigating than others. The ones that miss things may be new, lazy, or just not very smart.

They never just "give" anyone money or items until they can confirm when, where, and how the person lost said items. They will do their best to punish the scammer and remove the stolen items/gold, but, in the cases when they don't, they may reward the scammed player with the stolen goods. Anytime a restoration of something is requested, they look into it.

Depending on what time of day you scammed someone, and the time of day the person reported it, it's fairly safe to say that the scam investigation will not begin within the hour or 2 that someone reports it. If luck isn't on your side, though, and the queue is short and the GM who gets the ticket is working fast and the Specialist has a bunch of really easy and simple cases, then it's possible the investigation could begin (and be concluded) within 24 hours. And then, there are some cases where it could be several days before it begins, and the investigation could be stretched over many days.

I know this answer is kind of vague, but it's the best anyone can tell you, really. The only advice I can give is to scam someone at peak time, when there are more tickets in queue. You can never truly predict how the lines look like, though.

I hope this answers your question.

Our name is so ridiculously characterized that it's probably impossible for us to be reported...

Not sure why you'd think this. If the person is intent on reporting you, they can simply shift+click your name in the petition, and it will appear with all of its high ASCII characters.

I have some questions about scamming
1) Is it better to delete the toon that you scammed with or to just leave him on your account?

No, it doesn't make a difference.

2) Could having special characters that look like normal letters (e.g. i and ì) reduce your chance in getting banned, like if they reported your name as being minion and it was actually minìon would that reduce the chance Blizzard would have of catching you?

It could decrease your chances of getting reported, if someone were lazy. But then, you only need to shift+click their name into a petition.

3) Would it be better to scam several smaller amounts or one large sum (e.g. 5 500s or a 2500)

That's very hard to say. That's really up to the AA employee who reviews you.

4) For getting gold to your main account, would it be more effective to mail, trade or buy something expensive out of the auction house put in by your main?

Although no method is completley safe, the AH method appears to be the safest. I have still seen people get banned after doing the AH method, though.

5) I have two accounts, on different credit cards, emails and with different last names, addresses and phone numbers. How likely is it that they could both get banned via an IP trace and when are IP traces used and how often?

As long as they weren't registered with the same credit card, then the chances of them IP banning any of your accounts are very unlikely if you're just doing in-game scams. IP traces are typically only used in cases of big-time account "hackers."

6) How "bad" on the scale is the CoD scam, and could you use the plea of something along the lines of "I had a stack of 20 and a stack of 1 in my inventory and I must have clicked the wrong stack" or something like that or would Blizz see through it?

It's just as bad as any other scam. And no, that plea would never work, especially considering that you seem to be doing this scam more than once.

7) Would deleting your toon directly after you got the money+transfered it be better than waiting?

Deleting it at any time wouldn't help.

Thanks in advance for your help, and I think what your doing is great

Sure, no problem.

[Nanny]

Can Blizzard log regular trades? That's how I usually launder my scam money and I just want to make sure that it's a clean method. Also, is it cleaner to delete and remake a scamming alt multiple times or just once? Finally, how long does it take for Blizzard to get on a scam case like the COD scam? I just want to make sure I don't have to wake up at 5AM to check for them and launder the money in case the GMs can catch me that quickly.

[divajn]

Aight, I'll quote my thread I made recently because I got different answers

This is all for EU.

Okay, I got an account with _ONLY_ account name and password AND the last name of the account, it's a VERY good geared mage.

Now I'm wondering, am I able to transfer this character to a NEW account that has the last name of this account, without me having the email?

So basicly, I'm wondering if the email owner of the account I'm transfering FROM have to click or do something with a verification email.

I hope I made this as simple as possible

Thanks for any answers.

Thanks in advance Verye ;D

Edit:
So my question is really, do I need anything else than the account name/password and the last name of the account to transfer a character from that account to another account with the same last name.

[Origano]

If I log to scammed account with same IP as my own account, can it lead to my main account to be closed?

[Szharz]

I got banned some itme ago for camming, what is the chance i get my account back.
How would it be easyest to get it unbanned, (eu wow)

[asbest0s]

are there any cases of acc's being unbanned after the 5/20/2008 ban wave?

[Verye]

Can Blizzard log regular trades? That's how I usually launder my scam money and I just want to make sure that it's a clean method. Also, is it cleaner to delete and remake a scamming alt multiple times or just once? Finally, how long does it take for Blizzard to get on a scam case like the COD scam? I just want to make sure I don't have to wake up at 5AM to check for them and launder the money in case the GMs can catch me that quickly.

Yes, they can.

Aight, I'll quote my thread I made recently because I got different answers

This is all for EU.


Thanks in advance Verye ;D

Edit:
So my question is really, do I need anything else than the account name/password and the last name of the account to transfer a character from that account to another account with the same last name.

No. All you need is their account name, password, and last name. There is no email confirmation.

See, when you do a transfer, you will get an email saying that you need to finalize your transfer, but you do not have to finalize the transfer through email. It's just a notice. This means that whoever owns the email will see their account being messed with, but yeah, you do not need to have possession of an account's email to transfer characters off of it.

If I log to scammed account with same IP as my own account, can it lead to my main account to be closed?

No, unless you've been logging onto dozens or hundreds of scammed accounts.

I got banned some itme ago for camming, what is the chance i get my account back.
How would it be easyest to get it unbanned, (eu wow)

The only possible way you can get an account unbanned, US or EU, is sending an email saying you were hacked. The key is to only barely mention the ban; the email you send is supposed to be a help request sent because you got hacked. Blizzard needs to read it and immediately believe you got hacked, then they work from there. You can read more about this in my stickied guide in the WoW General section.

are there any cases of acc's being unbanned after the 5/20/2008 ban wave?

Yes. Read my thread on the matter here: http://www.mmowned.com/forums/bots-p...-ban-wave.html

This explains the ban wave and how you can try to get yourself unbanned.

In reality, the chances are quite low. If you perform an action (such as botting) on your own account, then they typically will not unban it. On the other hand, activites involving other people logging onto your account, including powerleveling, honor farming, and account renting, often result in pretty high chances of getting that account unbanned.

[divajn]

No. All you need is their account name, password, and last name. There is no email confirmation.

See, when you do a transfer, you will get an email saying that you need to finalize your transfer, but you do not have to finalize the transfer through email. It's just a notice. This means that whoever owns the email will see their account being messed with, but yeah, you do not need to have possession of an account's email to transfer characters off of it.

Okay, thank you for your answer

But are you sure this is for _EU_?

I want to be 100% sure since I don't want to waste 40 euros

[Verye]

Okay, thank you for your answer

But are you sure this is for _EU_?

I want to be 100% sure since I don't want to waste 40 euros

Hmmmm.

I suppose I'm not sure, then.

I should've noted that I can only provide advice for WoW US players.

[Jareth123]

I'm pretty sure you need sq/a for EU account transfers.

[divajn]

Hmmmm.

I suppose I'm not sure, then.

I should've noted that I can only provide advice for WoW US players.

Darn :\ Can anyone else can confirm anything?

[divajn]

I'm pretty sure you need sq/a for EU account transfers.

"Pretty sure"
Does this means you have done it, or that you assume that you have to?
:\

[Nanny]

Can Blizzard log regular trades? That's how I usually launder my scam money and I just want to make sure that it's a clean method. Also, is it cleaner to delete and remake a scamming alt multiple times or just once? Finally, how long does it take for Blizzard to get on a scam case like the COD scam? I just want to make sure I don't have to wake up at 5AM to check for them and launder the money in case the GMs can catch me that quickly.

Could you go a little more in-depth? So, what are the chances of Blizzard catching me? Is my laundering clean or not? It's not good for me if Blizz can log the regular trades but I'd like to know what my chances are of getting caught or not are.

EDIT: Also, how quickly does Blizzard get to each scam case? And do they investigate every scam thoroughly, or do the GMs just give the money/items back?

[Jareth123]

"Pretty sure"
Does this means you have done it, or that you assume that you have to?
:

this means that if you aren't sure don't try it as you will most likely waste 50$

edit: i get my cousin to transfer my characters from account to account and he always asks me for sq/a, thats why i said "pretty sure"

[Verye]

Could you go a little more in-depth? So, what are the chances of Blizzard catching me? Is my laundering clean or not? It's not good for me if Blizz can log the regular trades but I'd like to know what my chances are of getting caught or not are.

EDIT: Also, how quickly does Blizzard get to each scam case? And do they investigate every scam thoroughly, or do the GMs just give the money/items back?

Are you WoW US or WoW EU?

I'll give you a more in-depth answer when I know which I'm dealing with.

I'm pretty sure you need sq/a for EU account transfers.

That may very well be possible, but here's how it is for US:

For US, you just need to find the last name, make a new account with that last name, and then when you transfer a character to that new account, you only need to give the SQA of the destination account. I know, it's kind of stupid; they should've made it so you know the SQA of the account that the char is transfering from. But that's how it is for US.

As long as you make a new account with that last name and remember the SQA you sign it up with, then you're good. I think EU does it the same way, and that's where you may be getting confused (SQA for destination account, and not original account). Although, I'm not 100% sure, as I have little experience with EU.

I'm sorry that my specialty is US when a lot of you are EU, but that's just the way it is. I was born and live in America, and EU has so many strange differences in policy and methods, that knowing just US does not really mean I know a lot about EU.

Trust me though, if you are US and you have a question, I will not give you a wrong answer, unless it's something that a normal person is physically incapable of asking (IE, something only a high-ranking Blizzard employee would know). In that case, I'll tell you I don't know it; I won't give you bullshit.