[Informational] IS/Glider

[Apoc]

Warden may not have been scanning those specific offsets at the time. (If you were using a QPC based speedhack, you should be fairly safe)

And no fall damage is hardly ever scanned by Warden.

[Haitamo]

hehe maybe but if u open cheat engine b4 u open wow u get an error cheat engine is ur pc we wont let u login

[Sychotix]

thats because scan.dll sees it. Try either opening it after, changing the settings to where it wont find it, using a UCE, or using a completely different memory editor.

EDIT: OR you could simply remove scan.dll from ever being called but then you would probably have to bypass the CRC or whatever WoW uses to detect if its process has been modified prior to logging in.

[ubrpwnt]

People don't get banned for using Inner Space, because IS alone (no extensions) is about as harmful to WoW as FRAPS is.

Wrong. If Blizzard detects IS running you will get banned. I've heard this from a billion of my friends, Remus got his uncles account banned for having IS open while playing normally.

[Darkwalker1988]

Introduction

Recently I've seen a few posts that annoy me because people are talking about IS in a way that shows they don't know what their talking about it, so instead of channeling my annoyance into the posts (which won't help), I'm going to make a little informational post to hopefully help anyone who is new to IS or has never really figured out how it all works. On a side note I made a post with a lot of the information posted here but I think it was deleted since I can't find it now ;P

First things first, Inner Space is not a bot. A lot of people know this but I'm just clearing it up right off the bat. People talk of IS like it is the same thing as Glider is. Inner Space is simply a platform for developers to write their bots for. You can easily see this when you go to purchase it because as you see here it mentions nothing of a bot. People don't get banned for using Inner Space, because IS alone (no extensions) is about as harmful to WoW as FRAPS is.

Now at one point and time (I don't know exactly when or who) someone decided to make an IS extension for World of Warcraft. This extension allows programmers to have access to WoW's memory (to get information about where the character/mobs are located, cast spells, basically all interaction with WoW). ISXWoW reads and writes to WoW's memory, that's all, it isn't a bot either.

Of course Blizzard doesn't like people messing around in WoW's memory, so they started to scan for ISXWoW. This is how ISXWarden was born. It is also an extension for Innerspace, one that is designed to keep Blizzard's Warden happy. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that the original ISXWarden wasn't made by Lax (Lax is the maker/owner of Inner Space), but at some point in time Lax got his own World of Warcraft banned. He reversed Warden, looked at what it does and how to stop it, and made the nice new ISXWarden that we are all using today. I'll also take this chance to point out he has a blog, OnWarden, that has some very interesting posts about Wardens workings (for those who wish to learn even more).

Bannings

Anyone who has been botting for a while knows that when you bot, you should expect that account to get banned. It's all a matter of chance when you bot... the longer you bot for the higher your chances of getting hit with the ban stick are. It will happen, if you care about the account, DONT BOT IT. I, like many others, learned this the hard way. The only bots that are unlikely to be banned are the private ones. If Blizzard doesn't get ahold of them, it won't know what to scan for, and thus it is more likely to go undetected (think of it as if Warden were scanning for a virus, if it doesn't know what the virus looks like then it won't assume its dangerous). Of course to the majority of people out there, this information won't help you much because you won't be writing your own bots anytime soon lol.

Okay, time to talk about banning related to Inner Space and Glider. Glider had basically been trying to stay undetected by hiding itself in a rootkit, only reading memory, and sending keypress's to make itself seem like a real person. The problem is that Warden is a bit more complicated than that (at a minimum I know it can scan for rootkits) and was banning Glider users left and right. One banwave hit Glider particularly hard and Merc went to Lax for the protection that ISXWarden gave Inner Space users. Probably nobody except for Lax/Merc knows the arrangement between them, but Lax has some form of ISXWarden working to protect Glider now too (Note: "some form", they are not the same but most likely offer very similar protection).

As far as I see it, this was beneficial to Blizzard. It took two different major botting organizations and merged them under one roof. So now, whenever Blizzard comes out with a new way to beat ISXWarden, generally IS and Glider users will be hit with a ban wave at the same time.

Dealing with this whole issue there is another point I'd like to make. Some people here use bots like zolofighter, which they think is safe because it isn't being banned for at the moment. It is only as safe as the number of people who use it. Because 90% of the botters out there are most likely using IS/Glider to do their botting, Blizzard will obviously be working to ban them and not the assortment of little bots you may find on this site. At some point and time, especially if people get fed up with IS/Glider and switch over, Blizzard will just turn their eye over to whatever new bot is out there. Most likely it's defenses are not as good as Glider/IS and Blizzard won't have any trouble detecting it (especially after beefing up their Warden to detect the more advanced bots). Despite this though, for temporary safety, your best bet is to go with the newest and most unused bot out there.

Conclusion

There was actually more I wanted to cover... I think.. But the problem is that after nearly an hour of writing and editing this that my brain is a little zonked :P Please post opinions, corrections, flames, questions, ect. I plan on adding/editing this over the next couple days, so give me some material to cover

To clarify on banwaves and MERC supposively going to lax for his CODE...

Bullshit? I personally would like to say who ever the **** you are, your a total idiot... Notice how ISX has had a non stop ban wave for the past 3 weeks? And Glider remains, uh, untouched? Hmm.. I wonder why...

You might wanna reconsider your bullshit beliefs my friend... You speak on a subject you "barely" know, let alone comprehend....

[Darkwalker1988]

The OB userbase is small in comparison to Glider. That's an obvious fact. However, Warden being mainly packet based (which not even Windows security can prevent since it's a requirement for the game itself) can easily get around Zolo's protection scheme. (Not even wowpanda can argue this fact. And if he/she does, he/she is naive)

The 2.6 release on the forums only has 14k downloads, yes. However, OB moved to an open SVN a few weeks after 2.6 was released. (And has since moved servers three times) The downloads are much higher on the SVN than on the release thread. (30k last I checked, probably 10k or so being from people re-downloading the source to start from scratch) So 20k or so unique users. That's not a little by any means. (Glider has roughly 100k users) And OB really is not that difficult to set up, people just make it much harder than it actually is, because it's not a one click solution like Glider is. (And for good reason)

Not to mention, the majority of the OB community is based in IRC. The forums are there for keeping retained info. IRC is used much more often. So it's no surprise that the forums get so few visits. (Also most of the major routines that are on the forums, are now part of the OB core itself, so there aren't many downloads there either)

On a side note, I apologize for my misreading of your post.

However, Blizzard used to ban auto-it entirely. (Whether it was bots for WoW or not) That should be a pretty good indication of how easy it is for them to start banning again.

First i'd like to say this... As much as i respect all bot developers... OB Wouldn't exist if it weren't work Merc/Hamut... Lax would seriously have given up in a lawsuit 1-2 months in (HIS EXACT WORDS), so to clarify, without GLIDER, there'd be 0 bots for wow..

Secondly, Private bots are the only bots that can and will be safe for a user... From server side detection? We don't know what they look for in terms of a bot (doubt we ever will), but its very very obvious that a lot of this post is being mis-construed...

Clearly LAX and Merc have done their own thing... They consult each other (without a doubt im sure), but neither of them use the other persons work... One goes with ISX Warden the other goes with Trip wire, do they do the same thing? Yes - Only in some aspects.. Do they evade users from getting detected? YES, do they do it in the same mannor? NO... (Wonder why ISX Is down right now and Gliders up?)

No disrespect to any person here, but there's more on the table than these very common non-factual statements being tossed around...

[undrgrnd59]

Well there actually was a bit more hostility than I expected but what else can be expected from an innocent post :P

Anyway I'll try to respond to... some of it...

Deathwalker1988:
I hope I'm not a *complete* idiot, at least as far as the validity of Lax making Warden protection for Glider. I can understand that Glider users may not of heard about this, but a lot of IS users know this, we heard it straight from Lax on IRC (I highly doubt he is just spewing "bullshit" as you would say).

It isn't as big of a deal as your making it out to be. And your evidence is that they don't always have the same ban waves. They are still two different programs. Glider trys much harder to hide itself and be undetectable, where as IS bots put their full trust in ISXWarden, so it happens. The tradeoff? Glider users get banned more often from player reports.

Ubrpwnt:
I believe you, I'll edit my post to clarify that IS alone may get you banned, guess that has changed recently.

Benny32 (third post down):
I'll admit I'm an IS user through and through so some of my posts may seem to have that IS edge on them (I'll try to keep it to a minimum). As far as you comment about detection being complete guesswork, well that's not entirely true, simply reading though the OnWarden blog posts will give you a greater understanding. Obviously Lax/Glider don't come out and say all they know about Warden because it would be bad for business.

I'm not a hard core dev like some around here and don't claim to be an expert on the workings of Warden, these are my opions based on two and half years of botting. Take it for what it's worth.

Same story here, I'm just quoting what I know.

valiliv:
Well there's a difference between what I'm doing and flaming. As I said in my introduction, instead of flaming, I'm writing a guide to the best of my ability to educate those who don't understand. You on the other hand...

[Apoc]

First i'd like to say this... As much as i respect all bot developers... OB Wouldn't exist if it weren't work Merc/Hamut... Lax would seriously have given up in a lawsuit 1-2 months in (HIS EXACT WORDS), so to clarify, without GLIDER, there'd be 0 bots for wow..

Secondly, Private bots are the only bots that can and will be safe for a user... From server side detection? We don't know what they look for in terms of a bot (doubt we ever will), but its very very obvious that a lot of this post is being mis-construed...

Clearly LAX and Merc have done their own thing... They consult each other (without a doubt im sure), but neither of them use the other persons work... One goes with ISX Warden the other goes with Trip wire, do they do the same thing? Yes - Only in some aspects.. Do they evade users from getting detected? YES, do they do it in the same mannor? NO... (Wonder why ISX Is down right now and Gliders up?)

No disrespect to any person here, but there's more on the table than these very common non-factual statements being tossed around...

You're a babbling retard. Just make sure you know that. Lax had NOTHING to do with creating ISXWoW (which is what OB needs to be able to run). He created ISXWarden, which is just a protection method for WoW. (And he does it free of charge.)

Secondly, of course OB would exist if Glider hadn't been created. Don't try to fanboi your platform.

And if you want to be a huge fanboi (which you obviously are), using your logic, Glider wouldn't exist without WoW!Sharp. So take your stupid moronic ideas and stop trying to pass them as truth. They're clearly not.

Inner Space itself, has NOTHING (I repeat NOTHING) to do with WoW. It's a platform for people to write extensions that can interact with DirectX games. It does not come out of the box ready to start reading/writing WoW's memory.

And FYI, Hamut entered the Glider scene about a year ago. (5-6 months after OB was initially released)

So next time when you want to go on about "non-factual" statements. Put your fanboi hat down, and think clearly. And for the love of god, do some god damned research.

[Remus]

this thread is awesome /cheers for Apoc who so far hasnt lost >_> WOOT WOOT. keep them on their toes!

[Haitamo]

owned -----------period

[Haitamo]

btw i should grab some popcorn coz this is getting cool someone please ask hamut or merc to talk in here too and maybe lax and then the retards that are making warden pllllz

[Parog]

I *Heart* Apoc!

[Apoc]

btw i should grab some popcorn coz this is getting cool someone please ask hamut or merc to talk in here too and maybe lax and then the retards that are making warden pllllz

Merc/Hamut/Lax would be hard pressed to post here. (Especially Merc and Hamut due to the legal suit)

I'm sure if kynox/Cypher pop their ugly heads in here, they'll explain the workings of Warden far better than I'm willing to.

[Remus]

/wishes for the ugly heads err i mean lovely member Cypher the awesome would come and learn us i like to talk about warden.... tap tap tap ... that means now CYPHER!

[Sychotix]

Clearly LAX and Merc have done their own thing... They consult each other (without a doubt im sure), but neither of them use the other persons work... One goes with ISX Warden the other goes with Trip wire, do they do the same thing? Yes - Only in some aspects.. Do they evade users from getting detected? YES, do they do it in the same mannor? NO... (Wonder why ISX Is down right now and Gliders up?)

You do know that both Glider and Openbot use two complete different methods all together (not talking about the anti-detection stuff). Openbot uses Injection while Glider just reads from the process.

What if their methods of protection were completely the same (no i'm not saying they are). Warden goes... ok... let me scan for everything that has touched WoW.exe...

"ok... there's something that's reading the memory... no big deal." "Uh oh... here is something that is writing to the memory... *waves banstick*".