Possible Nerf to your favorite Weapon

[JonnyJa]

before reading: ->NO CREDIT GOES TO ME<-
im just reposting this info because i found it useful and wanna share.
source: PSA: Possible Nerf to your favorite Weapon

Now for the "issue":
Thought this topic was worth making for those that don't read the patch notes too carefully. The change isn't active on PTR yet as far as I can tell, but it is something that will likely get addressed, specifically due to the new red gems. I always make a point to cash out before every patch , and this is no different. IAS Nerf, New Legendaries, Monk Snapshot etc, I always believe it was my duty to cash out before something bad happens

The bug fix in the PTR 1.07 notes:

(edit: clarification, it is not in the patch notes, but in the 1.07 Known Issues list, which is why it isn't verifiable nerfage on PTR atm : 1.0.7 Known Issues List - Updated 1/15/13 - Forums - Diablo III )

The main hypothetical reason was to allow the new boosted Red Gems to work properly if they are +150 min and +150 max damage, as it would have varying affects on different weapons unless this "bug" is fixed. (Some weapons would benefit much more than others)

What popular weapons are likely affected by this bug? "Black Weapons" or those with +Min and +Max. But only if their damage range is fairly close - Windforce is a "black" weapon, but is/will not be affected because it's min damage is much lower than its max damage. The way damage calulations have worked with the MinMaxDam affix, was that since the min damage and bonus was added first, if the Base Min + Min affix > Base Max, then the Base Max got set equal to Base Min + Min affix + 1 , and then the Max affix added on top of the new Base Max.

What does that mean exactly? Would probably be best to just show some examples of some popular weapons:
Skorn: May get nerfed from 1428.2 to 1309.8

Echoing Fury: May get nerfed from 1300.2 to 1137.8

Rare Spear: May get nerfed from 1245.6 to 1069.2

Rare Wand: May get nerfed from 1304.1 to 1090.95


Windforce: Not getting 'nerfed' because the base min damage + min affix is still < base max. Interestingly enough if it did calculate, it would be less damage than on live. (1333 vs 1407)


As for your beloved Manticores, WKL, Shenlongs (ok maybe just me), they are not affected because they are ELEMENTAL DAMAGE, and are added after the "black" / base damage is affected.
Manticore: (elemental damage with +31 max)



tl;dr Pay attention to what happens with how Blue responds or addresses this "bug fix" listed above. Your weapons may be worth much much less if it goes thru as suspected.
I took the Echoing Fury example above: and with the +150minmax gem on 1.06 now it would bump from 1300 dps to 1757dps. If the bug is fixed, the 1300 would drop to 1137, but with a +150minmax gem would get boosted to 1442, which is what I suspect Blizz's goals are. So I'd start selling those black weapons now for 90% sure! ;-D


side note: if the Windforce listed above had a socket, it would then be bugged with the 150 gem and get boosted from 1407 to 1851 bugged, but only 1752 with it fixed)

edit: #2 Adding some additional Info from a post further along the thread
Here is a Link to the "MinMaxDam" affix possibilities Blizzard mentioned:
Affixes - Diablo 3 Lexicon


As the discussion drifted to buffing instead of nerfing, elemental damage weapons being allowed to benefit from +% Damage on weapon would result in this crappy 200k 992.5 dps Shenlong (ignore the socket) to get buffed to 1133 dps (elem damage moved from after to before the 1.5 multiplier )


One important twist in this conversation from the 1.03 Patch:

This could mean that all that will get fixed is the below amulet will change from "+28-57 damage" to +28 Minimum +29 Maximum. There are other discoveries people have made that I should probably mention where a large +min damage bonus from jewelry 'over-whelms' a +max affix and resulting in zero damage bonus. (but only when testing really low level weapons where the affixes are greater than the base damage - but further testing required for confirmation, each value has several hidden #s associated with it)


new definately TL;DR This is why the topic was titled: POSSIBLE, no one will know for sure if this is what will happen or if this is what they meant by their vague known bug fix wording. Hopefully on Monday enough fuss will be raise to get a response!

[somaliasky]

+2 rep for reposting

[who knows]

+5 rep thanks for the info, had no idea.

[JonnyJa]

BluePost taken from Diablofans, seems like eveything will stay the same.

We do our best to ensure that we alert the community in advance of game changes (just like we did for the Legendary Item Improvements), and in this particular case, I wanted to jump in to reassure everyone that “black weapons” (i.e. weapons with the MinMaxDamage Affix) are not going to be nerfed in patch 1.0.7, and we have no plans going forward to nerf them.

Known Issues are just that, bugs that we know about. They are NOT necessarily bugs that are going to be fixed. The MinMaxDamage bug has been a bug known to us since July of last year, however, we did not want to fix a bug that would effectively nerf a large number of existing weapons. That’s why we did not fix the bug in any previous patch that we've released since the bug was found, nor are we fixing it in patch 1.0.7. Currently, the plan is that at such a time that we address the bug, the bug fix will only apply to newly created items, so as to not adversely affect existing items.

I'm still curious though, in the hypothetical scenario that this bug is fixed, will it be a buff or a nerf?
I think the theorycrafting folk would really appreciate clarification on what the expected proper behavior of the minmaxdam affix is.
If and when we consider making adjustments to the MinMaxDamage affix (whether it be a bug fix or some other change), we’ll be sure to let you know in advance or otherwise provide as much warning as possible. We haven’t decided on anything yet, though, or really even discussed much in the way of possible changes. So, while I definitely admire theorycrafting and appreciate why you’re posting the hypothetical, there’s not a lot more clarity to provide other than what I’ve already given. It’d just be speculation at that point, and that’s not a very good role for me or any Community Manager to really serve.

[JonnyJa]

again, posted from source:
New Ruby Analysis

First, lets assume Blizzard will do absolutely nothing about the MinMaxDam issue as it pertains specifically to weapon damage calculation (and not the jewelery, +1, min>max randomness). I started the thread and thought it was important because I hadn't really gone onto the PTR until 1.07 or paid attention to any "Known Issues" much. I kinda thought known issues would be solved before they go live but when I saw that the MinMaxDam had been known since 1.04, have since concluded that it will likely not be fixed anytime soon (its been a bug since launch) and we should just all assume it will remain and black weapons will still dominate for the most part.

So what does that mean for the new Rubies? I decided to compare the top 3 gems, as even my cheap-ass can craft a Perfect Star these days. Assuming they scale as follows:

Perfect Star = 90% Crit Damage or +100 min/max
Radiant Star = 100% Crit Damage or +125 min/max
Marquise Star = 110% Crit Damage or +150 min/max


So first, the need to calculate the weapon dps improvement when socketing each one of these gems. It is obviously dependent on the attack speed and weapon dps as the ratio between the gem and base scales (linearly). This graph is an ESTIMATE on what should be the dps increase when socketing each one. For example, a Skorn with 1250 dps @ 1 attack speed has a ruby % damage of 24%.

Now using that Ruby %, pick a column close to your % (the Skorns would be in the first), select your Crit % and current Crit Damage and look at the cell. If it is RED, then that means the ruby is better. If it is GREEN then the emerald wins out. Seems like a pretty red board doesn't it?

For 1h+shield and single socket 2 handers


This chart is for Dual Weild (2 sockets)

[AlexPerlman]

Awesome Post, thanks for sharing

[JohnsonAnn]

Thanks for sharing this the graph explains it all. web chart

[Mikehouspi]

thx, interesting info indeed