Rogue Guide

[Greenfork1]

This Guide was made with information from the wow forms, Some of it is copied some i wrote my self.

THIS IS FOR PvE


Contence: ----------------- Red = Main Topic
1. Hit Rating
2 Weapon Skill
3. Haste
4. Spec's
5. Can't Crit What you Can't Hit
6. Glancing Blows
7. Hit Raiting vs Crit Raiting
8. Mulitate raiding and you

HIT RATING
------------------
1% hit = 15.77 hit rating @ 70
25.5% = (25.5 * 15.77) = 402.135 = chance to miss on a boss
402.135 is the number you should start from whenever calculating your miss rate

Talents to increase hit:
Precision: 5% hit = (5 * 15.77) = 78.85 hit rating
Weapon Expertise: 1% hit = 15.77 hit rating

Weapon Skill also affects hit:
1 weapon skill = .1% hit
3.9 weapon skill rating = 1 weapon skill
therefore
1 weapon skill = 1.577 hit rating
1 weapon skill rating = .404 hit rating

Using these numbers you can create the following equation:
hit needed to never miss = ceiling[307.515 - (weapon_skill_rating*.404)]
Ceiling means to round the answer up.
Where your weapon_skill_rating is from items. Humans add 19.5 to this if using an applicable weapon.
Assuming your hit_rating is < 308.
If your hit_rating is >= 308 your chance to miss is 0%.

Using Latro's as an example:
307.515 - (14*.404) = 301.859
Therefore using Latro's with WEx and Precision you need 302 hit rating to never miss.

Using Fang of Vashj as an example:
307.515 - (21*.404) = 299.031
Therefore using Fang of Vashj with WEx and Precision you need 300 hit rating to never miss.

Due to numerous factors including hit rating being itemized cheaper than crit rating, combat potency, and many other proc related things hit rating is the best bang for your buck stat to itemize in the game currently for a deep combat PvE rogue. However, you should never sacrifice overall DPS for a gain in hit. One of the best way to stack your hit rating is by socketing gear with Glinting Noble Topaz.

WEAPON SKILL
---------------------------
Note: 1 weapon skill = 3.9 weapon skill rating
The current iteration of weapon skill is postulated to give the following.

.1% hit = 1.577 hit rating
.04% crit = .884 crit rating
And on a boss grants an additional
.1% crit = 2.21 crit rating
For a total of:
.1% hit = 1.577 hit rating
.14% crit = 3.094 crit rating
On bosses.

What this means is that Weapon Expertise which grants 10 weapon skill equates to:

1% hit = 15.77 hit rating
.4% crit = 8.84 crit rating
And on a boss grants an additional
1% crit = 22.1 crit rating
For a total of:
1% hit = 15.77 hit rating
1.4% crit = 30.94 crit rating
On bosses.

This essentially means that Weapon Expertise is a core PvE raiding talent and should be picked up in any serious raiding spec.

This increase to crit on bosses has been assumed to make the item excell in PvE but not vastly surpass a similar item in PvP. The reasoning behind this is that 10 Weapon Skill gives 46.71 total rating (combined hit and crit) on a boss and 24.61 total rating on even level targets. 10 weapon skill is equal to 39 weapon skill rating. What this means is that you are getting more than the itemized 39 rating value on a boss, but you are very lacking on getting that value against another player in PvP. In fact that rating is nearly twice as effective on a boss.

HASTE (credited to Ippon)
------------

Haste is an increase in attack speed. However, it is *not* a decrease in default attack delay by x%. That is to say: 20% Haste on a 1.0 speed weapon does NOT mean that you will attack at 0.7 speed. Haste increases the amount of attacks you land in a given period by X%.
For a 1.0 Weapon:
60 seconds, 0% haste: 60 attacks.
60 / x = 60. x = 1.0 attack speed

60 seconds, 30% haste: 60 + (60 * 0.3) = 78 attacks.
60 / x = 78. x = 0.769 attack speed

The easiest way to calculate your new attack speed for a given haste percentage is:
Attack_Speed / ( 1 + Haste )

So for SnD with a 1.8 Mainhand:
1.8 / ( 1 + 0.3 ) = 1.385

Haste Rating:

10.5 Haste Rating = 1% Haste

Haste Ratings are additive.

If you have 3 items that all increase Haste Rating, one with 100, one with 135, and one with 300, your total Haste Rating will all 3 would be:
535 / 10.5 = 50.95% Haste

Total Haste:
To determine your final attack speed with multiple haste effects active, you must know your weapon speed, your haste modifiers, and where they came from. As we already discussed, haste from Haste Rating is additive. Take all the "increases Haste Rating by x" procs/items/abilities you have, and add them together to get a final value. For the example, let's say we have 250 Haste Rating from procs/etc.

Now, we need to look at other haste effects, like Slice n Dice, Blade Flurry, etc. These all convey a flat percentage increase, 30% for SnD, 20% for Flurry, etc. The difference between these and Haste Rating, is that "pure" haste effects stack multiplicatively and not addatively. They also stack multiplicatively with your total additive Haste Rating. It's easier to see with some examples:
Let's assume we're using SnD, Blade Flurry, and 250 Haste Rating with a 2.6 weapon.

Pure Additive (this is incorrect):
(250 / 10.5) + 30 + 20 = 73.8% Total Haste

2.6 / ( 1 + 0.738 ) = 1.796 attack speed.

Multiplicative: (this is what you would see in-game)
250 / 10.5 = 23.8% Haste.
SnD = 30% Haste.
Flurry = 20% Haste.

2.6 / ( [ 1 + 0.238 ] * [ 1 + 0.3 ] * [ 1 + 0.2 ] ) = 1.346 attack speed

This is actually ~ 93.1% Total Haste, and much nicer than the 73.8% from the additive method.

(MYRX) Haste is a direct percent increase to your white damage output, which means that the better your gear is the more you gain from haste. This is one of the primary reasons why Abacus of Violent Intent and Dragonspine Trophy are so good.

Spec's
---------

1:
-Combat Daggers
15/41/5
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0052031040000000000003203052022550100020210510500000000000000000000
With this Spec you should be using instant or Anesthetic pzn on both weps.
Your Main hand should be of a 1.8 or greater speed, greater preferable
your offhand a 1.6 of faster speed, faster preferable
Combo Points: SnD -> Rupture-> Rupture/Evis


2:
-Mutilate Spec
41/20/0
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0053201055501025010513023050020050000000000000000000000000000000000
This spec is also dependent on the weapons you use, Both weapons should be 1.8 speed or higher, with higher being better. (OBVIOUSLY THIS IS THE MAIN FACTOR YOU SHOULD LOOK AT WHEN DECIDING WHICH SPEC TO USE) The reason being that you may have a shitty offhand, but two kick ass main hands.Deadly Pzn should be used on Both Hands.Combo points in raids should be spent on SnD->Rupture-> Envenom.

3:
-Fist Spec With offhand Sword
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0053201050000000000000233050020050155023210510000000000000000000000
Slowest MH fist possible, Fastest Offhand sword possible, Combo points SnD-> Rupture-> Evisc/Rupture

4:
-SWORD spec
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/rogue/talents.html?3053201050000000000000233052020050150023210510000000000000000000000
SnD-> Evisc/Rupture -> Evisc/Rupture Slowest sword possible MH, Fastest Sword Possible Offhand.

5:
-Double Fist Spec
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?1053201050000000000003203052022050105023210510000000000000000000000
SnD-> Evisc/Rupture Slowest MH possible, fastest offhand.

YOU CAN'T CRIT WHAT YOU CAN'T HIT" (READ FOR UNDERSTANDING)
-------------------------------------------------------------
****THIS IS FOR WHITE DAMAGE ONLY****
This image explains it all: http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6395/hittablepc6.jpg

Basically the one roll system works as follows:
You have 100% to work with.
Mob's Dodge/Block/Parry is subtracted (only Dodge if attacking from behind)
Miss is subtracted.
Glancing is subtracted.

What you have left is the pie slice of the original 100% that can be a crit or a hit. Your crit gets subtracted next.

If you have more crit than the % of the pie left, your crit will only be as big as that pie slice.
If you have less crit than the % of the pie left, then the remainder of the pie is hits.

The reasoning for this is that hit does not give you hits persay, it actually subtracts misses. Hits are just whatever is left.

Example:
Max hit, 35% crit
5.6% dodge
40% glance
35% crit
19.4% hit

Therefore under the current system, with max hit your crit cap is 54.40% on white attacks. If the data that shows glances as 24% on PTR is correct the effective crit cap on white attacks would be 70.40% with max hit.

So, the statement that you can not crit what you can not hit is not true, but under special circumstances like heavy heavy crit stacking and 0% hit you will actually not be at your theoretic crit rate. This is because you do not have the hit to negate enough misses to make your stacked crit fully valuable.

However, with hit gear these days reaching the crit cap is virtually impossible unless you stack your gear specifically for that purpose in which case your damage is going to suck anyways.


Glancing Blows
----------------------

Key Things to remember :

- Glancing blows ONLY occur on White damage

- Glancing Blows CANNOT Crit

- Glancing Blows only occur on a mob that is above the level of X player, and are calculated by the formula (10% + (Boss Defense - Player Weapon skill x2%))

- A Bosses defense is calculated by the formula (Boss level *5)

- Thus, given the formulas, you can easily plug in the numbers for a level 73 Mob ( Your typical boss ) (10% + (365 - 350 x2%)) = 10% + (15*2%) = 40%

- Glancing Blows only do 70% of your normal damage

- The Formula for Glancing Blow Damage Reduction is as follows (Boss Level - Player Level x 10%)

Thus, on a level 70 mob the formula would be ( (73-70) x10% ) = 30%

- Glancing Blows reduce damage based on the proportion to the difference between the attackers weapon skill, and target defense skill (capped at attacker level *5 ) meaning Weapon Expertise or any additional weapon skill does not affect Glancing Blows) in easier terms, there is no way around glancing blows.

- Next Patch (2.1), the chance to land a glancing blow has been significantly reduced, the % has not yet been discovered to my knowledge.

IMPORTANT - Glancing blow % is fixed at 40%, as of 2.0.1 there is NO way to reduce the chance of a glancing blow, thus.. You must be careful when deciding how much Crit you have. Glancing blows take Precedence over Critical Strikes on the Attack table, thus, too much crit can push crit off the table, resulting in a crit cap where adding more crit would be pointless, adding hit % Reduces the miss %, thus giving miss less rolls and opening up space for more Crit.

(MYRX) It is important to know that there is no longer anything you can do about glancing blows, but it is very beneficial to understand them and how they are prioritized on the attack table. Also note that glancing blows have been changed on the Public Test Realm and when that data is available and reliable we can update this segment.


HIT RATING VS. CRIT RATING (by Taughror)
-----------------------------------------

It is often asked which stat is superior, hit rating vs. crit rating? The common misconception is that hit rating becomes less valuable than crit rating once you have a 0% chance to miss with your special attacks. This however is not the case. Hit rating is infact more valuable than crit rating until you reach 0% chance to miss with white attacks. There are several reasons for this:


15.77 hit rating = 1% hit while 22.1 crit rating = 1% crit. Therefor 1 hit rating = 1/15.77 = 0.063% chance to hit and 1 crit rating = 1/22.1 = 0.045% chance to crit. 0.063/0.045 = 1.4 meaning hit rating increases your chance to hit 40% faster than crit rating increases your chance to crit.

Increasing your chance to hit increases your chance to proc weapon buffs such as poisons and windfury.

Increasing your chance to hit increases your chance to proc weapon enchants such as mongoose, crusader, fiery weapon, or lifestealing.

Increasing your chance to hit increases your chance to proc weapon abilities such as the armor piercing buff on The Night Blade.

Increasing your chance to hit increases your chance to proc effects from other items such as Dragonspine Trophy or Romeo's Poison Vial.

If you are combat spec, increasing your chance to hit also increases your chance to proc combat potency.




The combination of being 40% more efficient and increasing various procs from a large number of possible sources is why hit rating will in almost all cases provide a greater increase in DPS than crit rating. The only advantage of crit rating is that it affects both special attacks and white attacks. This however is not a sufficient advantage to overcome the benefits provided by hit rating.

(MYRX) In my opinion take in to account the various different options for gear in a particular slot. Don't sacrifice i-lvl much to stack hit. however, I personally am gearing my hit out first (293 on PTR) then I will work on increasing my AP. Hit rating is cheap so having a lot of it isn't an issue. However, the easiest way to stack hit without sacrificing stats is by socketing Glinting Noble Topaz in to your red and yellow slots. I have 7 in my gear I believe which is 28 hit rating (7*4). That's almost 2% hit from gems only!


Mutilate, Raiding, and You
--------------------------------------

Let me start off with a brief disclaimer. I have raided extensively as both Mutilate and Combat so my knowledge base is relevant and not based off heresay.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhebRE0oizVo0eVb0V

This is a somewhat standard Mutilate raiding spec. Variations can include dropping Murder and EA for Imp Poisons if you're a fan of Envenom. Also picking up Imp SS over Endurance is an option.

But let's talk about why I didn't. I won't be using envenom, so the base poison proc rate is sufficient for keeping five stacks of Deadly Poison on the target. The EA provides utility for feral tanks, and the Murder is a better filler than the other options. Imp SS will be used as a farming tool if you're lazy.

Opportunity vs. Dual Wield Spec

For raiding dual wield spec wins hands down. First, the VAST majority of your damage output is going to come from white attacks. Dual Wield spec increases this damage substantially. Second, you aren't sacrificing the full benefit Opportunity gives Mutilate. Dual Wield spec also increases Mutilate damage, but only on the offhand. So you're only sacrificing part of your Mutilate damage for great gains in your white damage.

Cycling

It is my preferred method, and many others as well, to pop finishers at four or five combo points. A standard cycle would be:

SnD -> Rupture/Evis -> Rupture/Evis

The / indicates you will have to make a conscious decision as to what finisher is better at the time. Here's a hint, if Rupture is down, put it back up. Evis is your SECONDARY damage dealing finisher. Also consider that of the three finishers, only SnD does not need to be executed underneath the benefit of Find Weakness. What this means is that you should wait as long as possible to pop SnD. Ideally you will be one tick away from full energy, no find weakness, and 0 seconds left on SnD. This is not always the case and you must make a judgement call. Your other finishers you will want to execute with 0 seconds left on Find Weakness. This allows maximum usage of your next Find Weakness stage as your energy will be at the highest point. The dream situation is to proc a combo point off your finisher, and then crit the following Mutilate. This puts you at 4 cp and lets you tick high energy before a damage finisher which in turn makes your SnD cycle turn much smoother.

The Cold Hard Truth

While on 90% of raid encounters Mutilate matches or outperforms a combat spec the drawbacks on the other 10% of the raid encounters makes it a much less than ideal raiding spec, and a hindrance to your guild. Here's a quick few examples.

Hydross the Unstable (SSC): An enrage timed fight where dps is key. A mutilate rogue will not be able to Blade Flurry adds down every other phase. This stacked BF from 2-3 rogues kills the adds at the same time as Hydross is being dps'd. This means the adds die faster and the ranged dps get more face time on Hydross. The second drawback on this fight is that he is poison immune. Your mutilate damage will be roughly 66% of its potential.

Void Reaver (Eye): Another enrage timed fight. He suffers from the same poison immunity as Hydross, and as a fight where you back out every 10 seconds the time when you dps him needs to count.

Leotheras the Blind (SSC): Yet another dps sensative enrage fight. Due to Leotheras' ability to draw out your demon having blade flurry is almost a must. If you do not have Blade Flurry you will be forced to toe to toe your demon. A rogue with BF will be able to pop it and go all out on Leotheras all the while dpsing his demon with the BF swings.

Well the dps contribution of haste is a function of your dps so it varies =)
But that's why we love haste isn't it?

Armor ignore is also a function of your dps because armor ignores a % of incoming damage and thus armor ignore returns to you a % of your initial hit. The better your dps the more you are getting back per armor ignored.

As for glancing blows just a quick write up about its implimentation on test. I heard 24% glance on a boss, 6% on an even level target, and +6% per level above you so:

70 = 6% glance
71 = 12% glance
72 = 18% glance
73(boss) = 24% glance

[Jaydizzle]

nice detailed guides, +rep

[Obama]

repost ftw?

[Yooloze]

nice effort

[Greenfork1]

repost ftw?

Not exactly i changed some stuff and gave proper credit

[Khalts]

Nice guild btw, painfull to read but nice >.>

[reveng_]

Imp Poisons and Vile Poisons are REALLY handy when raiding. When 5/5 poisons stack, your wasting extra procs, so using envenom to clear is REALLY good as envenom goes through armour whereas evis doesn't.

[Vanilla]

Rupture is a better finisher.

[Remahlól]

Imp Poisons and Vile Poisons are REALLY handy when raiding. When 5/5 poisons stack, your wasting extra procs, so using envenom to clear is REALLY good as envenom goes through armour whereas evis doesn't.

You know that even after your stacks are 5/5 that your applied poison from your weapon can still proc?

Also, the finishers for a MH,BT raiding rogue aren't Evi and envo, they're SnD and Rupture. (Rupture only if you have atleast 1 Feral druid in your raiding group.)

[kangaxx4]

Been looking for a rogue guide for PvE. The numbers squashed my brain cells o.O

[murash_rulez]

nice guide , + rep, really needed builds for my rogue. Keep up the Guides

[mmodude]

i own a rogue 25% crit full tier 5 and some items from gruuls and karazhan but still its easy to own anyone but nice calculations