Rogue Mutilate PVE Guide (including Q&A)

[fandehgo521]

Now before I begin, I realize there is a guide made in Jan, but mine will be a little different, and give you a better perspective on raiding and dungeon..ing?

OK! Here we Go

So.. you want to be a cool top of the dps charts rogue huh? Well i can't promise that.. but i can certainly try to help you out a bit with this helpful guide i've compiled =]



TOC:
I: Talents
II: Gear
III: Enchants
III.I: Glyphs
III.II: Gems
IV: Rotation
IV.I: Situational Abilities
IV.II: Poisons
V: Addons
VI: Macros
VII: Helpful Sites
VIII: Q&A


Talents:
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Ok, So for talents, real simple, 31/2/8. Here's an easy spec, that proves to be the best dps for rogues: 31/2/8.

Gear:
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So you've just dinged 85, and want to know what gear to get? Well with this guide it's pretty simple to see.. Click Here.. What you want to focus on is the 2nd and 3rd column of numbers, the "MAEP" and "Mut" columns.
Agility>Hit until 1332>Mastery>Haste>Expertise>Crit is the way you want to focus/reforge your gear.

Enchants:
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A lot of times enchants are very situational.. Depending on your gear/stats.
Again, here is another chart that you should take a look at: Here..
But here are the basics:

Head - Arcanum of the Ramkahen 60 agil/35 haste
Shoulders - Greater Inscription of Shattered Crystal 50agil/ 25 mastery
Cloak - Major Agility 22 agil
Chest - Peerless Stats 20 to all stats
Bracers - Agility 50 agil
Gloves - Greater Mastery 65 mastery
Belt - Ebonsteel Belt Buckle
Legs - Dragonscale Leg Armor 190 AP/55 Crit
Feet - Major Agility 35 Agil
Weapon - MH - Landslide/Hurricane, OH - Hurricane

Glyphs:
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Glyphs can also be very situational.. for reference, here are the glyphs i use:
Prime: Mutilate, Rupture, Backstab
Major: Tricks of the Trade, Feint, Sap
Minor: Poisons, Distract, Blurred Speed

Gems:
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You see a lot of rogues stacking + 40 agil gems in every socket.. Yes this is nice, but at the same time.. you miss out on a lot of Socket bonuses... So follow this guide for the right gems for the right slots.

Rotation:
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REVAMPED:
TAKEN FROM ieatpaperbag @ Elitist Jerks
Single-Target


Opening
You will always want to open from stealth such that you use as much of your 20 seconds of Overkill as possible. It is better to open a fight with Garrote rather than Mutilate if you can do so without delaying the start of your attacks by more than a second or two. This may not always be possible either due to unpredictable movement of the boss in the first few seconds of the fight or to a stealth-breaking pulse at the start of the encounter - but when its possible, its worth doing. Once in combat, there are various sequences of abilities that work but ultimately you will want to get Rupture and SnD both up as quickly as possible, neither has to be a lot of combo points at the start.

100% to 35% target HP
The priority of finishers is as follows.

SnD > Rupture > Envenom

At this point, you will use Mutilate as your combo point generator and maximize your rupture uptime then maximize your Envenom uptime. To maximize your Envenom uptime, you should try to not overlap the Envenom buff when possible. However, you should overlap the Envenom buff instead of capping out or using Mutilate as an energy dump and wasting combo points. When possible, you want pool ~90 energy (less with haste or if you are consistently overlapping your Envenom buff) just before using Envenom such that when you Mutilate after, you have an increased chance to proc your poisons. Your rotation will be 1+ Rupture and 4+ Envenom; meaning if your Rupture is falling off, put whatever combo points you have into a new one otherwisee do 4 or 5 combo point Envenoms.

35% or less target HP
Once your target reaches 35% HP, you will stop using Mutilate and instead use Backstab to generate combo points. You will still follow the same priority order and maximize your Rupture uptime and then Envenom’s and pool before using Envenom. You will want to do 1+ Rupture and 5 Envenom instead.


Situational abilities:
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Rogues don't have too many situational abilities available to them.. So here are the basic few we get:
Cloak of Shadows: Good for a lot of things, including standing in fire and AoE spells..
Evasion: The rogues life saver... Helps you dodge a SHIT load..
Combat Rediness: DONT use with evasion.. use AFTER your evasion wears out.. as this will basically act as a 2nd makeshift evasion..
Tricks of the Trade: Use whenever it is up.. If you glyph into it, it costs no energy..
Feint: Again, use whenever up.. if you glyph into it, no energy cost to you.
Recuperate: Great life saver... Use it if you notice yourself not getting healed often
Shiv: Amazing for a lot of fights.. Takes away an Enrage! Keep this binded. Shiv can also be used to put up DP on the target when it becomes immune or has some kind of a shield around it to keep CP+self buffs.
Dismantle: VERY situational.. use this at the tanks disposal.. as it will give you a lot of aggro.. usually good followed by a feint.
Vanish: is also a dps cd so that you can also put up a quick garrote and the overkill buff, it's kinda a waste to use it with lust/hero/warp/hunter thing since envenom clipping will be guaranteed. Best used just after 1st overkill buff is gone, and while backstab spamming. Or just keep it to dump threat on a boss such as Lady Deathwhisper where the tank gets a debuff where they cannot generate anymore threat.


Poisons:
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Poisons are pretty simple... MH - Instant.. OH - Deadly, Throwing Wep (YES you can now put poisons on your throwing weapon) Deadly poison.

Addons:
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Combo Points Redux: Will allow you to move a combo points counter to wherever you want, if you tend to not look throughout the entire screen during your encounter.

Recount: So you can see your deeps

Some kind of unit frame: I use Xperl, it makes it very easy to see your health/targets if you dont stare towards the top of your screen.

Satrina Buff Frames: Really cool buff/debuff bars, you can move them to wherever you want.

Omen/ Recount Threat: Easily see your aggro.

Macros:
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I don't use many macros.. however one huge macro to have is a tricks of the trade macro..

For this to work... click on your tank and type "/focus"

#showtooltip Tricks of the Trade
/cast [target=focus] tricks of the trade

another version, given by Anonie, would be:

A better ToTT macro:
#showtooltip
/cancelaura tricks of the trade
/clearfocus [modifier:ctrl]
/focus [help] target
/cast [target=focus, help, nomod] Tricks of the Trade
If you consistently ToTT other dps, keep the 2nd line, if you only ToTT the tank, don't use the 2nd line. Basically, this will tott your focus, and if you press ctrl, it'll set your focus or clear your focus. Press the macro (as is) a second time to stop dumping threat on your focus, your focus will still keep their dmg buff.



Another i use is autoattack/mut

#showtooltip Mutilate
/startattack
/cast Mutilate

Helpful Sites:

A few big sites i like to use are:
Shadowpanther - The best theorycrafting rogue site around..
WowHead - A very informational site
TankSpot - All the videos you could want for raiding/dungeon guides. - I can listen to Aleina talk all day long..

Q&A:

Feel free to ask me questions and I will update this as they are asked.
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I hope you are too
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[Sensisativa]

Not bad, I like the format....

I'll have to get one of my rogue friends to check it out and let me know how it is. + rep.

May I suggest some pictures.

Edit- Every time I try and rep you I get a message saying "You are not allowed to give zero point reputations!"

It's not giving me the options to pick the amount of points, trying to find a way around it.

[fandehgo521]

I'll upload some pics when i get bored...
May i steal some of your ideas? xP

Edit - Ty for being persistent with the rep <3

[Sensisativa]

I'll upload some pics when i get bored...
May i steal some of your ideas? xP

Sure, go for it.

Edit - It was the Forum style not allowing me to give rep, changed back to basic and it works fine.

[fandehgo521]

Now with added pictures =P

[snugg]

Adrianna has posted that keeping rupture up 100% of the time even if it's with 2-5 combo points is higher dps to keep your venomous wounds proccing.

[LindeCutah]

Nice layout but wrong info, to start of with the rotation, it's Stealth, ToT if you can, open with Garrote, use that 1 CP to put on Rupture, then Muti once for SnD, from that point muti until 4/5 CP and Envenom, try to avoid overlapping Envenom buffs from Mutilating (dps loss) and keep rupture 100% up (or close) with 1-3 CP per rupture, don't spend more on it. And ofcourse <35% backstab, can't believe you didn't mention that.

I don't mean to be harsh but this is garbage for any rogue that wants to do decent damage.

[mpollywolly]

Layout is nothing but a waste of bandwidth and the info is wrong. Not sure who would ever come to mmowned for info about playing their class but..heres your fixes
Corrections: (Only pointing out some things, not everything.)
Prime glyphs: Mutilate, rupture, backstab...not vendetta and slice and dice.
Rotation: Stealth, ToT, GARROTE (not ambush lol), SND, mut, rupture, then 4/5cp envenom, keep rupture up and use coldblooded on envenoms, and vendetta whenever its up. Once the target is below 35% backstab till 5 cp then envenom.
Poisons: Instant on thrown..no reason to use wound, unless you want to lower your dps for some reason.

[LindeCutah]

Poisons: Instant on thrown..no reason to use wound, unless you want to lower your dps for some reason.

I think that Deadly is better on thrown atm, since it's revised and 5 stacks of deadly now makes it do instant poison dmg, so just to get your stacks up faster on AoE fights , deadly It's always at least as good as Instant.

[fandehgo521]

Adrianna has posted that keeping rupture up 100% of the time even if it's with 2-5 combo points is higher dps to keep your venomous wounds proccing.

I've never heard of the low cb rupture.. will look into it.. Thanks

Nice layout but wrong info, to start of with the rotation, it's Stealth, ToT if you can, open with Garrote, use that 1 CP to put on Rupture, then Muti once for SnD, from that point muti until 4/5 CP and Envenom, try to avoid overlapping Envenom buffs from Mutilating (dps loss) and keep rupture 100% up (or close) with 1-3 CP per rupture, don't spend more on it. And ofcourse <35% backstab, can't believe you didn't mention that.

I don't mean to be harsh but this is garbage for any rogue that wants to do decent damage.

About the glyphs..
I said it was very situational... I personally can't stand back stabbing.. I don't see a use for it.. I've tried many ways of doing my rotation with backstab built into my glyphs/rotation, and i truly find that I do a lot more dps with the rotation i threw out there...
I'll take a look into the low combo point rupture, but I never heard that said.. so thanks for that.
Again, i know garrote is another bleed, but i find myself doing a lot more dps opening with ambush.. I've sat on a training dummy opening with garrote for 1m damage, then vanishing, waiting for cds... then restarting with garrote, and i find myself doing more sustained dps opening with ambush.
Full raid buffed, opening with garrote i was hitting 16k dps
Full raid buffed opening with garrote and using backstab ~ 30% of the time i was hitting ~ 15.5k
Full raid buffed, opening with ambush, i was hitting closer to 17k
Full raid buffed opening with ambush and using backstab ~ 30% of the time i was hitting ~ 16k
Full raid buffed, opening with no stealth, i was around 15k..
Full raid buffed opening with no stealth and using backstab ~ 30% of the time i was hitting ~ 15.5k
So i definetly took into affect everything that i could to try to balance dps
Again, it's more about personal preference/what you're comfortable with..

Poisons:
I like wound, because again.. it someone ****s up interrupting, it'll atleast help a little bit with the mobs healing...
I used to use deadly and saw a sustained dps..
Whereas instant I found myself hitting like a truck, but not true sustained..
Again it's all situational.. if your in a dungeon where there are a lot of caster trash/menders, it's good to use wound..
If not throw on deadly/instant.... instant is more aggro... so if you have problems maintaining aggro, use deadly
And a little side note, I appreciate your input, even if it is that my guide is terrible, I'll look at it tonight and fix it as i see fit..

Also:
9/10 rogues i've talked to don't even know that you can even put poisons on your thrown weapons..

(I know im not a pro rogue... I'm just offering a helping hand to rogues that just dinged 85/just getting into raiding)

Edit #2: I changed the pictures to be spoilers.. make it easier on the eyes/bandwith.. as i said, i'll spend a lot of time and gold testing the suggested methods and report on my findings...
WTB 4 stack of dust of dissapearence

[fandehgo521]

After reading a bit more and testing it out more.. I have revamped the guide to better fit maximum dps.

[Anonie]

IP/IP on MH/OH is sometimes much better than IP/DP when fighting things that go down in 1-2 mutilates. Thus you're also forced to use eviscrate and some kind of a weapon swapping macro. Something like: /equipslot 17 Quicksilver Blade with IP on it, and /equipslot 17 Scaleslicer with DP. Note about poisons for thrown, sometimes it is worth it to have wound or instant on it instead of deadly. On a fight where the boss heals, can put WP on it and throw/FOK the boss to get the de-buff (assuming there's no spriest/warrior/lock in the group). You'd want IP on the thrown if the trash dies within 5-7ish foks.

Backstab glyphed is ideal generally b/c alot of the time, you cannot fully devote your dps on one single target, such as Omnotron Defense System where the target changes before Vendetta wears off. However, if it is just one boss like maggie, then you can switch glyph to vendetta and just keep spamming that for while it is impaled.

Vanish is also a dps cd so that you can also put up a quick garrote and the overkill buff, it's kinda a waste to use it with lust/hero/warp/hunter thing since envenom clipping will be guaranteed. Best used just after 1st overkill buff is gone, and while backstab spamming. Or just keep it to dump threat on a boss such as Lady Deathwhisper where the tank gets a debuff where they cannot generate anymore threat.

Shiv can also be used to put up DP on the target when it becomes immune or has some kind of a shield around it to keep CP+self buffs.

Redirect is great for Valiona & Theralion, it allows you to keep SnD up with a quick Eviscerate if it is about to drop off as you reach the boss.
Yes Eviscerate is a combat/sub thing, but if your target is immune and you have no sub/combat gear you have to fall back on this, or if the adds go down too fast to stack DP.
Don't forget Cheap Shot and KICK, always have kick bound to something simple and easy access. Cheap shot will save you if you pull threat on an add and ToTT is down or tank is out of range (until patch anyways).

A better ToTT macro:
#showtooltip
/cancelaura tricks of the trade
/clearfocus [modifier:ctrl]
/focus [help] target
/cast [target=focus, help, nomod] Tricks of the Trade
If you consistently ToTT other dps, keep the 2nd line, if you only ToTT the tank, don't use the 2nd line. Basically, this will tott your focus, and if you press ctrl, it'll set your focus or clear your focus. Press the macro (as is) a second time to stop dumping threat on your focus, your focus will still keep their dmg buff.

[snugg]

I've never heard of the low cb rupture.. will look into it.. Thanks





About the glyphs..
I said it was very situational... I personally can't stand back stabbing.. I don't see a use for it.. I've tried many ways of doing my rotation with backstab built into my glyphs/rotation, and i truly find that I do a lot more dps with the rotation i threw out there...I

Sub 35% your dps will go up dramatically as soon as you start backstabbing. Please read into your class before you post info about said class.

[Zeraux]

You don't have to put poisons on your thrown weapon, as long as you specced into 'Vile Poisons' (which you will if you're Assassination specced).

[jokerjokes]

Uh, yeah you do, poisons on your thrown weapon are applied to targets that you use fan of knives on.