Who gets the DE stuff?

[soto]

Basicly, this is a post I have written for the wow-europe forums with some nice suggestions, so Im posting it here aswell to get myself some feedback on it.

Now onto the real post:

Warning! This is a very long post! If you suffer from an attention span the length of an ADHD mosquito's or lack the intellectual capacity to comprehend anything more than three paragraphs long, please make your way to the TL;DR section at the bottom or don't continue at all.
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The Dilemma:

Currently, there is a dilemma of sorts when it comes to Enchanters and heroic and raid PuGs (heroics, primarily). Before Wrath of the Lich King, an enchanter's job in a PuG was quite simple: They took items that nobody needed or wanted and they would disenchant them, thereby increasing their value by turning them into Large Prismatic Shards or Void Crystals which would sell more than simply selling the unneeded rare or epic to a vendor. Since these enchanting materials were used for nothing other than enchanting gear, they could be used equally by everyone in the party or raid, and so were rolled on.

However, with the release of Wrath of the Lich King, a slight yet significant change has taken place in the Enchanting profession. Now, instead of obtaining key formulae (those are the 'recipes' learned by Enchanters to obtain new enchants, in case you were unaware) by the usual means of learning it from an Enchanting trainer or finding a formula on a mob, boss, or the Auction House, a new system was implemented so that the only way Enchanters can get the high level formulae that players want and the ones needed to level are only obtainable if you pay for them with Dream Shards. The enchantments bought with Dream Shards are ones you are quite familiar with, such as Massacre, Greater Spellpower to Staves and Weapons, Berserking, Major Stamina to Bracers, Greater Speed to Cloak, and many more (click here to see a list of all purchasable shard enchantments). While not all of these formulae are bought by Enchanters because of their uselessness (e.g., Giant Slayer), the majority of them are. In fact, to buy all the useful ones, it would cost the enchanter around 110 Dream Shards and 5 Abyss Crystals to purchase them.

However, here is the main issue: If you are in, say, a heroic dungeon or a raid with a PuG (i.e., not a guild run), and a piece of rare or epic gear drops that nobody needs for their main spec or off-spec (I cannot stress this enough), and you have one known enchanter in the raid, what is done concerning the shard or crystal that is obtained when they disenchant it? Currently, the norm is that everybody simply rolls for the Dream Shards at the very end of the raid. With the recent enchanting changes, however, things are complicated a little bit. Since Enchanters need those Dream Shards to buy formulae in order to learn new enchants so they can level their profession, should they not get priority on them? Why should they have to roll on reagents they can actually use when others are simply rolling on them to get a few extra gold. In addition to this, if everyone can roll on an Dream Shards which are used by Enchanters, why doesn't everyone roll when a skinner skins leather off a boss or trash, when herbalists find herbs in an instance, or when miners come across a node?

By now, I'll wager most of you are already moving your mouse towards the "Post" button so you can type a scathing message flaming those greedy Enchanters and their damned sense of entitlement to all unwanted gear. But before you do, please read what I have to say.

One of the primary arguments against Enchanters getting to disenchant and keep the Dream Shards from items that nobody needs in a PuG is that everybody helped defeat the boss, so everyone should have a shot at the Dream Shards obtained from the loot that they didn't need. I, however, think this is a weak argument. For instance, if everyone helped defeat the boss that can be skinned, why doesn't everyone demand that they get to roll on the leather the skinner obtained? Moreover, when you enter an instance, you don't find mining nodes and herbs sitting right next to the portal, do you? No, you don't; you usually have to travel quite deeply into the instance to find them, and to do that, you need a group of people to get there because you can't solo the mobs yourself. Since it takes a group of people to get there, shouldn't they all have a chance to get the ore or herbs you gathered?

Another argument is that if you have no skinners, herbalists, or miners, the mobs cannot be skinned, the nodes cannot be touched, and the herbs sit there uselessly. I mean, you can't just pick up a node you find and have a miner harvest it for you, right? This, too, is a somewhat weak argument in that most rares and epics found in heroics and raids are Bind on Pickup, and you cannot get an Enchanter to disenchant items soulbound to other people.

However, there is a second argument to this: While leather, ore, and herbs do not exist unless harvested, the gear that is disenchanted does exist before disenchanted, and that gear still has inherent value even if it is not disenchanted because it can be sold to any vendor for a few gold. I find that this argument holds more water than most because it is true that people who pass on disenchantable gear they don't need are, in fact, giving up their chance at money they could earn by selling the gear so that the Enchanter can get Dream Shards for himself or herself. It is also true that many Enchanters do almost exactly the same thing as the non-Enchanters in that they intend to sell the gear they get, only they will have disenchanted it and put it on the Auction House for more gold than they would have gotten by tossing it to a vendor.

While I do not deny that there are some Enchanters who only want the unneeded rares and epics merely so they can disenchant it later for profit at others expense, it would be silly for anyone to assume that this is always the case. There will always be the Enchanters who need the Dream Shards to level their profession, and it would be unfair to make them have to go buy the Dream Shards off the Auction House to level their profession when other professions need only to farm skin-able mobs and to fly around looking for herbs and nodes to level and make money with absolutely no cost to them. If one were to buy all of the Shards off the Auction House for, say, 20g each, then those 110 Dream Shards I mentioned would cost 2,200g just to get them (keep in mind this is highly dependent on a server's economy). This is why I think leveling Enchanters should get priority for Dream Shards in PuG heroics and raids because, unlike some other professions, they cannot farm mobs for rares and epics effectively because of the extraordinarily low drop rates, nor can they harvest Dream Shards from nodes found virtually everywhere. The only place they can 'farm' Enchanting materials is from heroics and raids. I would also like to add that taking up Tailoring in addition to Enchanting is not necessarily a good way to farm Dream Shards. For the record, most blue items that would give Dream Shards have very expensive materials, thus defeating the purpose of not buying them off the AH in the the first place.

In the end, though, I do not think the blame for any issues that are caused by this dilemma should be blamed on the greed of the Enchanters or the non-Enchanters. I think that the real issue is with the new system of purchasable formulae that are bought with materials that everyone can use. Both Enchanters and non-Enchanters are both trying to make the best out of the situation that they can; it's just that they have conflicting interests. However, there are a few solutions to the dilemma:

Option 1: Simply don't tell the group that you are an enchanter and roll greed just like everyone else. This way, you don't have to bother with second rolls and you get to guarantee you keep all the materials you get from DEing.

-I am not overly fond of Option 1 because it doesn't benefit the whole group as much as it could. By refusing to reveal that you are an Enchanter, you prevent others from getting Enchanting materials they might need for enchantments for their own gear. However, I still do this often because I simply don't feel like putting up with the hassle.

Option 2: If you are an enchanter, make an agreement with the group that you will disenchant all rares and epics that nobody needs if you are guaranteed the first Dream Shard / Abyss Crystal that is obtained. After the first Dream Shard or Abyss Crystal goes to the Enchanter, all the ones that follow are disenchanted and rolled for by everybody.

-I like Option 2 a great deal more than Option 1 because it benefits more people. If there are more than one Dream Shards, everyone still has a 20% chance (or 10% or 4%, depending if you are in a raid or not) to get Enchanting materials, and it will always be worth the Enchanter's time to disenchant things for other people because he will almost never walk out of the instance empty-handed.

Option 3: If you are an Enchanter, make an agreement with your group before you begin that you will disenchant all rares and epics that nobody needs and keep Dream Shard and Abyss Crystal that are produced. Then, after each item is disenchanted, everyone will roll 1-100. If someone besides the Enchanter wins the roll, the Enchanter will promptly pay them the exact vendor price for that specific piece of gear on the spot, producing the exact same result for them if they sold the item to the vendor themselves (Exact vendor price can be found on the Armory and by using this addon). However, if the Enchanter wins the roll, he pays nobody just as if he won the roll anyway. If the group declines these arrangements, everyone will simply roll Greed on gear and the Enchanter will not disenchant any items but his.

-Option 3 is by far my favorite option. Even though it is primarily for Enchanters who already have all the purchasable formulae, it still produces a 'win-win' scenario for both the Enchanters and the non-Enchanters. By everyone agreeing to the arrangements, the non-Enchanters get the same result that they would get by selling the gear to vendors, except they don't have to bother with it taking up bag space or having to find a vendor afterwards. As for the Enchanters themselves, they get the benefit of being able to still make profit off a profession they spent a lot of time and gold to level and they always get the Dream Shards or Abyss Crystal if they need it at a price less than that of the Auction House.

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The TL;DR:

(Warning! This is a very long TL;DR! If you have an attention span the length a hummingbird's on ecstasy with half its brain cut out or lack the mental capacity to comprehend anything more than three sentences long, please make your way to the TL;DR's TL;DR below or don't continue at all. Seriously.)

1. Since Enchanting has changed slightly since The Burning Crusade, there has been the occasional dilemma concerning who should keep the Dream Shards obtained by disenchanting gear that nobody needs for their main spec or off-spec because Enchanters now need Dream Shards to purchase essential formulae to level their profession. Since the system is changed, the typical way disenchanted gear is handled should be, too.

2. When you are in a PuG heroic or raid (i.e., not a guild run), nobody demands that skinners let everyone roll on the leather they skin from the boss, that miners let everyone have a chance at the ore they extract from instance nodes, or that herbalists let everyone have a go at the herbs they pick inside instances. Then why, if nobody rolls for their professions' items, should Enchanters do the same if nobody needs the gear that is disenchanted? If you say that it is because everyone worked to kill the boss, keep in mind that you can't skin bosses alive, and most nodes and herbs are located so deeply within an instance that it requires a group to get there.

3. Skinners, miners, and herbalists can easily farm their materials outside of instances and raids at no cost to them. The only way for most Enchanters to farm Dream Shards and Abyss Crystals is to run many heroics and raids, and even then they only have a 20% chance (or 10% or 4% depending on if it's a raid) to get those materials simply because the non-Enchanters in the group want to vendor the item for a few gold whereas the Enchanter could use it to level. (Note: I do not deny that there are still many Enchanters who only want to disenchant the gear so they can keep the Dream Shards / Abyss Crystals and sell them for personal profit. However, it is unfair to say this is the case for all Enchanters, because not every Enchanter is at max level with all the shard formulae.)

4. While greed may play into both sides of the issue, the real problem is with the system Blizzard created where essential formulae are only obtainable by an item (Dream Shards) that everyone in the game can use.

5. I have proposed three possible solutions to this dilemma above. Option 2 and 3 are the best, in my opinion.
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The TL;DR's TL;DR:

1. nchantin needz sum chanjes cuz nchanterz need moar shardz tahn b4

2. wen u pug a heroic or sumthin no1 sez taht teh minerz or skinerz hav 2 let otherz roll on there stuf y shuld nchanterz???

3. minerz & stuf can mine & find crap outseid uv herohiks & nchanterz cant & so nchanterz need bettr wayz 2 farm there stuf but dey cant so day hav 2 run herohiks

4. it all blizz falt

5. i postd sum ideaz 2 try 2 halp dis problum but dont reed tehm cuz dey 2 long

(Note: This section is a joke. I put it here because some bright individuals were complaining that my TL;DR section was much too long. )
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Conclusion:

And so concludes this massive wall of text. If you wish to discuss this, please do so in a civil way with flaming and trolling at the minimum (a futile request, I know). This is a complex issue and so there are many different ways to look at it. I would lastly like to state that I am completely aware that this is not a problem for everybody, and many people have never encountered this situation at all. I, however, have encountered it several times, thus prompting me to type this.

[Darkfall169]

All i can say is good luck with your wall of logic. When you're in an instance with 4 other 11 year old kids enjoy trying to explain rationally why you are more entitled than them.

[ßetray]

Im maxed enchanter, have been for awhile. Same rules apply in heroics/raids/etc as always. Don't know where the 'dilemma' lies unless the group enchanter/DEr is a complete dick.

[cf.ru]

Hm, I think this problem is just too little for that amount of attention and discussion

[powerblaze]

Just a thought. I've heard of people being able to solo-with 3/4 people sum raids and heroic instances. Of course with the right gear. If you were able to get your guild/friends to maybe help you run a few for those shards, and just save those for your recipies. As for option 3. That option I like more as nobody is even lossing out. your getting the shard that you NEED and there getting the gold and if they QQ about not getting a dream shard tell them they can easily change professions and get all the dream shards they need lol nice post though