Memory Editing Section Call For Input

[Cypher]

Right, so given the earlier discussion about the state of the memory editing section (the thread has since been deleted for rule violations), I would like to open a forum for input.

What would you like to see changed around here? What do you think would make this a better environment for you? Are there any rules/policies you disagree with? What do you see as 'bad' about the section as it currently stands? Conversely, what do you see as 'good' about the section? Perhaps you think the direction/focus of this section should change entirely to discussion of unicorns and rainbows? Or maybe you even think things are just perfect as they are?

Go for it. Feel free to have an open discussion about the 'politics' of this section.

Please keep it civil and try to keep an open/objective mind.

Disclaimer: I'm not promising anything will change, as obviously I don't have the power to make such sweeping decisions. However, I hope that by opening up the floor we can try to improve things here (whatever that may mean to you). The staff here are nothing if not reasonable.

At the very least, I think it will make some of you feel better to just get what you want to say out in the open.

Note to Admins: Slightly OT, but please leave it up as there's nowhere else to put it, and it's for the benefit of the site.

[namreeb]

I was thinking lately that there isn't as much intelligent discussion here as there used to be. Maybe that's because all of the "interesting work" has been done already, though.

[streppel]

I would like to see some kind of guide newcomers here they could work through and afterwards know how to get started in doing their stuff in the game they want.

my english isn't the best,but still i would help writing it

[Robske]

I think many of the contributors of the past have since lost interest and/or quit WoW. If they haven't, their frameworks are built and considered feature complete by now. there's no incentive to contribute because it's either done before or not 'smart' to release (in case of exploits, hacks)

All information needed to create a functional bot is available on this forum. The hardest part would be to put it all together, which is probably where all/most newcomers fail: aggregating all this information and implementing it in a proper project architecture.

Thinking back to when I started out here, I could've used the following:
- A thread that groups threads by topic for easy reference and lookup (Would be more a quality of life thing, replaces search)
- A thread that briefly explains the most common terms (pointers, offsets, detours etc)
- A thread on how to call and/or reverse WoW API functions (Read the book tbh)
- Thread(s) on project architecture (having rewritten my framework atleast 3 times from scratch)

Oh and someone must make it clear that if you are looking to call existing functionality you should look at the damn WoW API pages and RE the desired function(s) if required.

[Jadd]

1. A good MMO to reverse.
2. See point 1.

[Jaerin]

I'd like to see some discussion on the mechanics behind some of the hacks that have been released. I mean how do you even begin to understand how to write say a no-clip hack or GCD hack without understanding how you would go about it.

Obviously someone had to pioneer and figure it out the first time, but the concepts of those hacks are what I'm getting at. For example lets take a speed hack as an example. In some games it could be as simple as putting on and taking off a speed modifying item to find a "speed factor" type of an offset, but what other options might their be?

Hell I think it would be interesting to watch someone go through some of this and just ask questions about what they are doing as they go along. To me understanding the language is only a part of the problem...you have to have an understanding of the systems in place. I haven't seen really any discussion of how one goes about even pretending to have protection vs warden or the like.

To me there seems to be a disconnect between those with a little bit of knowledge that wants more and the people who have a lot of knowledge and either don't know how or what to share it.

[sitnspinlock]

I think we need a dedicated section, similar to that of game deception. I think that since this forum community as a whole is rather large that sections like "wow memory editing" become the go to for questions related to software reverse engineering that don't relate to this game. I also think this forum as a whole has some great potential, it just needs to be reorganized into better sub forums related to these topics.

For instance "wow memory editing" "swtor memory editing" "other memory editing" sections could become more of an information dump forum strictly related to the game itself and we could have sub forums directly related to windows, debugging, apis's, internals and anything else.

[JuJuBoSc]

I agree with Everdox, memory editing for something else that WoW could be great.

[streppel]

Absolutely agreeing to everdox too

[~Unknown~]

Thinking back to when I started out here, I could've used the following:
- A thread that groups threads by topic for easy reference and lookup (Would be more a quality of life thing, replaces search)
- A thread that briefly explains the most common terms (pointers, offsets, detours etc)
- A thread on how to call and/or reverse WoW API functions (Read the book tbh)
- Thread(s) on project architecture (having rewritten my framework atleast 3 times from scratch)

Assuming the forums stays as is for specifically Wow memory editing section I find this to probably be the most useful thing for people starting out. That being said Robske mentioned in the same post most people are "complete" in what they have for "WoW" specifically. There are small tidbits of screenshots and videos of us doing random things, but for the most part this forum has everything that anyone could want to build a bot/hack/something cool for the game.

I think we need a dedicated section, similar to that of game deception. I think that since this forum community as a whole is rather large that sections like "wow memory editing" become the go to for questions related to software reverse engineering that don't relate to this game. I also think this forum as a whole has some great potential, it just needs to be reorganized into better sub forums related to these topics.

For instance "wow memory editing" "swtor memory editing" "other memory editing" sections could become more of an information dump forum strictly related to the game itself and we could have sub forums directly related to windows, debugging, apis's, internals and anything else.

This is probably the most reasonable idea that I could think of working. Continue the Wow memory editing section but perhaps merge it as a sub section to a larger "reversing" Section. This way most of us could throw ideas out for reversing other games we might play or just reversing in general.


Just my two cents for what it's worth.

[FunnybunnyJR]

i think a general forum for advanced programming and reversing would be good, maybe one where less experienced users are more welcome i know that there are many users who struggle with some of the advanced concepts that are deemed necessary for participation in this board, perhaps a place where more general reversing questions are welcome would create less annoyances for the guys in here.

[harrycarry]

A place less hostile would be nice.The threads I've read, there are members who can't help themselves and go out of their way to be difficult, rude, immature and vulgar. The memory section should perhaps be broken up into sections depending on the question. Sections such as: beginner, intermediate and advanced then finally a 'release' for those who've created a small program and want to show/sell/give back to the community. Also have the advanced an invite only for those who've shown to clearly grasp the concepts of reversing, programming etc.

With it broken up a mod can just transfer threads to the appropriate section and have the person be helped rather than leave it here to wither away and die in a flame storm.

[Xelper]

A place less hostile would be nice.The threads I've read, there are members who can't help themselves and go out of their way to be difficult, rude, immature and vulgar. The memory section should perhaps be broken up into sections depending on the question. Sections such as: beginner, intermediate and advanced then finally a 'release' for those who've created a small program and want to show/sell/give back to the community. Also have the advanced an invite only for those who've shown to clearly grasp the concepts of reversing, programming etc.

With it broken up a mod can just transfer threads to the appropriate section and have the person be helped rather than leave it here to wither away and die in a flame storm.

Most of the time people are hostile because new people come here and expect to have their hands held and have almost everything handed to them. The few times I have had to ask questions, I showed how I was approaching a problem and what I had tried to do and people were more than helpful. The other reason for hostilities is because the answers to most questions have already been posted dozens of times. I went from no knowledge of reverse engineering (but knowledge of programming), to writing an object manager and radar, to reversing/calling fuctions/injecting my own code in ASM just by using the search feature alone. It was a long tedious process, that took really months of work to come to the point where I was able to release something like PQR, but it was worth it learning all of that stuff.

If you want to learn to program, how to read, understand and use ASM, this section really is not for you. This section is really for those working to reverse engineer WoW who already have a working understanding of programming and reverse engineering in general.

[harrycarry]

Most of the time people are hostile because new people come here and expect to have their hands held and have almost everything handed to them. The few times I have had to ask questions, I showed how I was approaching a problem and what I had tried to do and people were more than helpful. The other reason for hostilities is because the answers to most questions have already been posted dozens of times. I went from no knowledge of reverse engineering (but knowledge of programming), to writing an object manager and radar, to reversing/calling fuctions/injecting my own code in ASM just by using the search feature alone. It was a long tedious process, that took really months of work to come to the point where I was able to release something like PQR, but it was worth it learning all of that stuff.

If you want to learn to program, how to read, understand and use ASM, this section really is not for you. This section is really for those working to reverse engineer WoW who already have a working understanding of programming and reverse engineering in general.

I've not read many threads where people are asking for hand-outs, many have fairly complete code and are just confused where to go next. Actually most of the time it's just a matter of confusion with offsets. This notion that every person is asking for hand-outs on a programming message forum is absurd. And this dutiful, righteous attitude of having to 'restore order' on these boards with sometimes horrific responses makes it even more outlandish. It seems many here have lost or forgotten the curious, playful spirit that lead you guys here in the first place. Now it's "I have knowledge you want, therefore I will act as I please!"

This person above admits to not having any knowledge of ASM and reversing. Worked feverishly for months using this very search function to figure things out and finally able to create (I'd imagine) good working code. Yet this poster ends his post with 'if you want to learn ASM and reversing this section isn't for you.' Really? I see it's not for me but it was certainly for you? I am willing to bet many of the sections you've read were filled with posters getting chewed out for asking 'dumb questions'. Questions in which you benefited greatly from. (I do apologize for quoting you Xelper, you are probably a nice guy/girl and I don't mean you have or are in any way shape or form a negative person. Just trying to point out issues with communication here.)

I know many of you worked your tails off to understand what you do, came such a long way and are really great at this memory reading stuff. I just hope there could be more transparency and/or guidance into this process.

[DarkLinux]

I think we need a little sub tittle for our names. All the other sub wow forums have it. Like That would do so much for the forum. People would be like "Wow that guy has a little sub text thingy! Thats so epix I want that! Im going to post all my source code to the Ownedwhore.!". Then they would like try and do stuff and things... Then you cant just get random people to rep you, or trade sex for rep. You know what all the noobs do...

All new sub tittle thingy! ya!