A couple of (easy) questions that I have.

[jbrauman]

Hi MMOwned, this is probably my first or second post here but I have been reading what is going on in these forums for a while now.

I'm not going to give you a run down of my entire programming life but basically I have a decent understanding of programming syntax and use, but I've never done any 'real' programming such as C++, Java (actually I dabbled in that) or C#, but have a background with Visual Basic (read: noob programming) and I built my own PHP/MYSQL driven website.

As a project I thought I might like to try my hand at making a simple 'bot' for WoW. Most likely I'll just play with reading memory from the client and such.

Anyway, never having done this kind of 'harder' programming, I've got a couple of questions:

Would it be better to use C++ or C# for this kind of work? As I understand C# takes care of all the memory allocation for you and as I've never had to worry about things like that (Visual Basic and PHP ) I'm leaning towards that but Im open to suggestions. Considering I have never worked in either and have a clean slate to start from.
What tools do I need? I was doing a bit of reading before and from what I can gather I need an IDE and a compiler, but I'm not sure. Also what is this business with the .NET Framework? I've no clue what it is so if someone could enlighten me that would be great.**EDIT: After a bit more reading I have an understanding of what it is about.
What resources could I use? Obviously I'm going to be starting out with 'Yay hello world!' examples but as I progress and get into memory reading, I'll need some good tutorials because as it stands I don't know much about it. I could always Google stuff like this, which no doubt I will but it is always good to have personal opinions.
Is reading WoW's memory generally safe? Obviously botting in general is bannable but if I write a simple program with the simplest of memory reading, and have no warden protection what-so-ever, is it an insta-ban?

I think thats about all I wanted to say, if anyone has any other information they'd like to tell me (how they started out and what they read to learn) that would be awesome. You'll probably see some more of me around the forums now.

Thanks

[hypnodok]

Hi MMOwned, this is probably my first or second post here but I have been reading what is going on in these forums for a while now.

I'm not going to give you a run down of my entire programming life but basically I have a decent understanding of programming syntax and use, but I've never done any 'real' programming such as C++, Java (actually I dabbled in that) or C#, but have a background with Visual Basic (read: noob programming) and I built my own PHP/MYSQL driven website.

As a project I thought I might like to try my hand at making a simple 'bot' for WoW. Most likely I'll just play with reading memory from the client and such.

Anyway, never having done this kind of 'harder' programming, I've got a couple of questions:

Would it be better to use C++ or C# for this kind of work? As I understand C# takes care of all the memory allocation for you and as I've never had to worry about things like that (Visual Basic and PHP ) I'm leaning towards that but Im open to suggestions. Considering I have never worked in either and have a clean slate to start from.

C# coupled with Shynds Blackmagic library is probably the most noobfriendly way to read/write memory.

What tools do I need? I was doing a bit of reading before and from what I can gather I need an IDE and a compiler, but I'm not sure. Also what is this business with the .NET Framework? I've no clue what it is so if someone could enlighten me that would be great.**EDIT: After a bit more reading I have an understanding of what it is about.

Visual C# Express will do, also try to find the aforementioned BlackMagic library (it has been posted on the GameDeception forums, just search for posts by Shynd).
If youre going to do actual reversing (finding offsets or pointers yourself) you should also get IDA-Pro and/or Ollydbg, it sounds like thats too advanced for you atm tho.

What resources could I use? Obviously I'm going to be starting out with 'Yay hello world!' examples but as I progress and get into memory reading, I'll need some good tutorials because as it stands I don't know much about it. I could always Google stuff like this, which no doubt I will but it is always good to have personal opinions.

This forum, shynd.wordpress.com, gamedeception.net forums, possibly wowdev.org.
If you would completely read through the wow-sections of all these sites you should be able to copy paste everything you need. Youd also have a decent understanding about how it actually works.

Is reading WoW's memory generally safe? Obviously botting in general is bannable but if I write a simple program with the simplest of memory reading, and have no warden protection what-so-ever, is it an insta-ban?

No insta-ban, warden is a joke when it comes to detecting private tools.

I think thats about all I wanted to say, if anyone has any other information they'd like to tell me (how they started out and what they read to learn) that would be awesome. You'll probably see some more of me around the forums now.

Thanks

General advice: Take your time with this. Dont jump into it without knowing how to program. Carefully read through the links I posted (this alone should take you a couple of days at least). Google stuff you dont know. You can also shoot me questions on quakenet or synirc. I usually idle on there, cant promise that Ill always have time or patience to answer but hey (same screenname).
Have fun!

To Shynd: Did you stop writing tools for wow completely or did you just stop blogging?

[Nesox]

I agree with hypnodok, C# is a very nice language and easy to learn. I dont get it when pepole say that C# is confusing because it isnt, it has it's limitations but you can still do great bots.
C++ is very powerful. ie. DLL injection altho you can write a dll in c++ and then set up a ipc(named pipe or w/e way you do it)
i suggest you buy some programming books on c#/c++ and after you got all the basics covered things will go alot fast, learning how to create bots and hacks is serious buisness

[Shynd]

To Shynd: Did you stop writing tools for wow completely or did you just stop blogging?

I stopped in the middle of a simple quest-helper-ish-bot (parse information on what mobs to kill / drop certain objects / whatever, then go kill them and loot objects.. very crappy implementation) because WotLK came out and I've been actually playing the game (gasp!). Soon as I get bored, I'll probably pick it back up again. Other people write better stuff than I do, just peruse their source and blog about it yourself =p.

[jbrauman]

Thankyou very much for both your replies, I've decided to download and install both Visual C++ Express and Visual C# Express, and learn both. I will go over those resources you gave me Hypnodok, and do some major reading up.

If youre going to do actual reversing (finding offsets or pointers yourself) you should also get IDA-Pro and/or Ollydbg, it sounds like thats too advanced for you atm tho.

You are probably right that it is too advanced for me though I have read a couple of articles on the process and I am familiar with what is trying to be accomplished. However disassembling Minesweeper and WoW are two completely different things =].

Really both your replies have been invaluable, and if other people want to put down anything else please do.

[hypnodok]

I stopped in the middle of a simple quest-helper-ish-bot (parse information on what mobs to kill / drop certain objects / whatever, then go kill them and loot objects.. very crappy implementation) because WotLK came out and I've been actually playing the game (gasp!). Soon as I get bored, I'll probably pick it back up again. Other people write better stuff than I do, just peruse their source and blog about it yourself =p.

Im way too lazy to blog, thats why I liked (and still like, to a degree) yours so much

[jbrauman]

PROGRESS!
Using the help of a website (and thier addresses) I wrote a c# program that reads minesweepers memory and can tell you where the mines are. NOT a copy and paste job, so I'm happy with it.

Only took me.. 3 hours -.-

Edit: What is the TLS?

[Apoc]

PROGRESS!
Using the help of a website (and thier addresses) I wrote a c# program that reads minesweepers memory and can tell you where the mines are. NOT a copy and paste job, so I'm happy with it.

Only took me.. 3 hours -.-

Edit: What is the TLS?

TLS: Thread Local Storage

[jbrauman]

TLS: Thread Local Storage

I understand this is a method or technique for finding addresses? Or is that the object manager? I'm really quite clueless, lol.

[Apoc]

Thread-local storage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[jbrauman]

After a few grueling hours, I finally have a bit of a better understanding of the things involved in reading WoW memory. I understand the idea because the object managers 'linked list' and how to cycle through those objects. I understand the concept (if not where the values came from) behind finding the address of the object manager - start at g_clientConnection and work from there using pointers. From the object managers address you can use offsets to find your on Guid (every object has a unique identifier) and the address to the first object, which will lead you to the second object and so on. From each of these objects you can find information about them (such as thier Guid). To find your character on the object manager you need to cycle through until Object Guid == Local Guid. I learnt some other stuff too but my brain is tired now, I think that is enough for one day.

Cheerio.