Not a flame...just putting this out there

[evancooleo]

I have been going to this forum some time now, I dont post much, but I have been looking at the graphics stuff, its a great tha people are trying to help each other, but the people who are making the sig's need to learn something. The people who are going to deviant art and ripping their renders/3d stuff does not make it your sig.

http://www.mmowned.com/forums/graphi...ture-pics.html

for example, thats ripping some guy off of deviant and saying your skilled because you add a pic and some color. Photoshop has brushes fro a reason, so YOU can get creative and make stuff for yourself. Ripping and helping are two different things, want photoshop help? go to www.pslover.com, please dont rip.

Ps...here are some of my default brush made siggies-



















I am still learning myself, but you can get alot more out of making things from scratch instead of taking 20 minutes rip something and add some color...

[lag]

I honestly don't see how you can say your signatures are any better than Roflcopterzzz. He is trying to help people with little to no skill with photoshop make a quick signature for themselves. Out of the 17 threads you've have started, none of them are guides.

You stole art, and used brushes to make signatures. Did you take those photos? Are you Stan Lee (co-creator of the incredible hulk)? Did you even create your own brushes (if you want to talk about cheap and default)? I didn't think so.

Your signatures are nice, but they aren't any "better" or "worse" than what you are bad-mouthing. I see you say you are not flaming, but calling someone out and trying to one up them is flaming. Whatever you may think you are trying to "put out there", it is not creative criticism in any way, and is not helping.

I have been going to this forum some time now, I dont post much, but I have been looking at the graphics stuff, its a great tha people are trying to help each other, but the people who are making the sig's need to learn something. The people who are going to deviant art and ripping their renders/3d stuff does not make it your sig.

http://www.mmowned.com/forums/graphi...ture-pics.html

for example, thats ripping some guy off of deviant and saying your skilled because you add a pic and some color. Photoshop has brushes fro a reason, so YOU can get creative and make stuff for yourself. Ripping and helping are two different things, want photoshop help? go to www.pslover.com, please dont rip.

Ps...here are some of my default brush made siggies-

<edited for brev here>

I am still learning myself, but you can get alot more out of making things from scratch instead of taking 20 minutes rip something and add some color...

[Volkmar]

/agree with lag

[evancooleo]

I honestly don't see how you can say your signatures are any better than Roflcopterzzz. He is trying to help people with little to no skill with photoshop make a quick signature for themselves. Out of the 17 threads you've have started, none of them are guides.

You stole art, and used brushes to make signatures. Did you take those photos? Are you Stan Lee (co-creator of the incredible hulk)? Did you even create your own brushes (if you want to talk about cheap and default)? I didn't think so.

Your signatures are nice, but they aren't any "better" or "worse" than what you are bad-mouthing. I see you say you are not flaming, but calling someone out and trying to one up them is flaming. Whatever you may think you are trying to "put out there", it is not creative criticism in any way, and is not helping.

Thanks for reading, no where did I say mine were any better, I just dont rip from deviant, yes I do make my own brushes. I am not calling anyone out, nor am I saying anyone doesnt have skill, but taking others creations and adding color dont make them your own. I could care less about what you are saying but the fact that you said I stole art gets me. I have been doing this about two or three years and no, I have not stolen art. The fact that Stan Lee is Ione of the creators of hulk is about as relevant as the fact that I had cheerios this morning. Please tell me how me getting a sprite of hulk off of google and has anyting to do with him. And also, one thing is telling people how to make sig's, im fine with that, whatever, but then you tell me the pictures I use are 'stolen'. I would appreciate if you could explain to me how that makes sense. And the fact that you judge me because I havent made threads on how to help people with graphics on a world of warcraft website....great job man

and one more thing to think about before you attempt to go off on me again-

do painters make their own brushes? do they cut trees and make the brushes? do they get chemicals from the ground to make paint? do they make their canvas or the support for the canvas? (didnt think so)

[Malchazien]

Honestly, yes you're right. It is pretty messed up to take someone else's C4D and use it in a sig without permission. Though from looking at the guide you posted those are Metal-CX brushes that he has up there for the public to use... I don't see a problem with that. There is nothing wrong with using pre-made brushes if you're still beginning. They're there so you can learn how to make a sig, and what the depth/structure of a sig should be. THEN you learn to make your own brushes and learn to use defaults to recreate the effects and take it to another level.

Anyways if you're looking for some CnC on your sigs, here's some. Your smudges are too obvious. Try smudging with wider settings or use lower strengths. Some of your sigs have way too much contrast, try using layer masks more. For your hulk one, this is just a tip. If you really wanna make a nice sprite sig, don't blur it too much. The trick is to not modify it a whole bunch so that you can still see the base but still have some effects of your own.

Anyways, hope this helps some.

[lag]

no where did I say mine were any better

Your saying that his "ripping some guy off deviant" is inferior to your ripping off Google images in some manner. Pretty obvious to me.

I am not calling anyone out

Really? Looks like you've got a big link pointing at Rolf's tutorial right there followed by an abecedarian attempt to prove its' invalid status.

nor am I saying anyone doesnt have skill, but taking others creations and adding color dont make them your own.

This is exactly what you did with your sigs, and you clearly posted "here are some of my default brush made siggies" Are these your own? Read the rest of this post before responding...

I could care less about what you are saying but the fact that you said I stole art gets me. I have been doing this about two or three years and no, I have not stolen art.

No stolen art? I'd like to see you try to sell your art commercially. You can't? Oh NoEs! Why not? Oh because it's copyrighted work. What you are making is fan art, which inherently contains the work of other artist. (more on this below). And if you want to waggle your "experience" rocket around as if it was some sort of argot password for giving your post prepotency, let me validate my own for you. I've been working with graphics for over 13 years, and been doing this professionally (as in primary paycheck) for more than half that time. I have a B.A. and I am applying to attend my school of choice for my masters degree with the intentions of pursing a doctorate before 2010. Still, I do not go telling people that I am better than them, I'm not even saying I'm better than you. I've helped many people on this forum with their graphics questions and I certainly don't hold it against them that they have less experience or less education than me.

The fact that Stan Lee is Ione of the creators of hulk is about as relevant as the fact that I had cheerios this morning. Please tell me how me getting a sprite of hulk off of google and has anyting to do with him.... but then you tell me the pictures I use are 'stolen'. I would appreciate if you could explain to me how that makes sense..... but then you tell me the pictures I use are 'stolen'. I would appreciate if you could explain to me how that makes sense.

Comic characters whether western or traditional, photographs, illustrations and other artwork are peoples property. If you go on google, download something and slap your name on it, it is stealing. Does it matter on this forum? No because we're not making a profit, and it's just fan art. Many uses said "stolen" artwork in their avatars and sigs, it's just for fun, it's a tribute, but it doesn't make you an artist, it doesn't "make it your own", but you can still put a creative flair and personal touch in your fan art. Regardless of that, what your doing is nothing different from Rolf's tutorial. Let's play a word game:

I copied images from deviantart and photoshopped my name on them.
I copied images from google and photoshopped my name on them.

Wow, what a difference that makes!

And the fact that you judge me because I havent made threads on how to help people with graphics on a world of warcraft website....great job man

The fact that best defense you have against that statement is great job man... well... great job man. How about making a tutorial on making complex sigs, show Rolf and the rest of us how it's done? Constructive criticism and tutorials helps build the community, not "I'm right your wrong" post. And for the record, that's "help people with" anything, you've asked questions, the people of the forum have answered.

do painters make their own brushes? do they cut trees and make the brushes? do they get chemicals from the ground to make paint? do they make their canvas or the support for the canvas? (didnt think so)

Yes We Do. Where do you think the classics got their materials? Do you honestly think thank Michelangelo went down to Pearl's Art Supply and picked up a 6 pack of plastic brushes and acrylic paint? True artist today still put their own special natural ingredients (not just factory batch chemical fodder) in their medium, and extra work in their substrate. Unless you dare call these Corporate Artist true artist, this is how professionals work.

How does this transfer over to the digital world? Well let's see. Where do you think the art for your Hulk came from? Men spent much of their lives developing a character, a story, a design. Dozens of people in draft meetings with countless sketches poured over the idea. Hours of painstaking hand drawings to complete the rough draft. Jobs created and lost in accounting, marketing, sales, distribution, all so that someone with a scanner and an internet connection can scan and upload the art. It flys around the world and lands in your Google image search for you to copy, photoshop, upload and say "I made it, I never stole anything!"

Here's some links you may find helpful (if you have read this far):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

In closing, you said it best "Photoshop has brushes fro a reason, so YOU can get creative and make stuff for yourself. Ripping and helping are two different things"

And a special note to the mods: I am sorry for picking up on this troll-like post, but I believe that Rolf's tutorials are an excellent resource in this forum and I don't think it is right to give this kind of post no matter how much he thinks people "need to learn something." I believe the general population of this forum is no more mixed than your average crowd; suits, ponytails and propellerheads... but they all have the right to want to do something else with their life, and free guides like this are a stepping stone to (possibly) a new beginning.

[evancooleo]

Your saying that his "ripping some guy off deviant" is inferior to your ripping off Google images in some manner. Pretty obvious to me.



Really? Looks like you've got a big link pointing at Rolf's tutorial right there followed by an abecedarian attempt to prove its' invalid status.



This is exactly what you did with your sigs, and you clearly posted "here are some of my default brush made siggies" Are these your own? Read the rest of this post before responding...



No stolen art? I'd like to see you try to sell your art commercially. You can't? Oh NoEs! Why not? Oh because it's copyrighted work. What you are making is fan art, which inherently contains the work of other artist. (more on this below). And if you want to waggle your "experience" rocket around as if it was some sort of argot password for giving your post prepotency, let me validate my own for you. I've been working with graphics for over 13 years, and been doing this professionally (as in primary paycheck) for more than half that time. I have a B.A. and I am applying to attend my school of choice for my masters degree with the intentions of pursing a doctorate before 2010. Still, I do not go telling people that I am better than them, I'm not even saying I'm better than you. I've helped many people on this forum with their graphics questions and I certainly don't hold it against them that they have less experience or less education than me.



Comic characters whether western or traditional, photographs, illustrations and other artwork are peoples property. If you go on google, download something and slap your name on it, it is stealing. Does it matter on this forum? No because we're not making a profit, and it's just fan art. Many uses said "stolen" artwork in their avatars and sigs, it's just for fun, it's a tribute, but it doesn't make you an artist, it doesn't "make it your own", but you can still put a creative flair and personal touch in your fan art. Regardless of that, what your doing is nothing different from Rolf's tutorial. Let's play a word game:

I copied images from deviantart and photoshopped my name on them.
I copied images from google and photoshopped my name on them.

Wow, what a difference that makes!



The fact that best defense you have against that statement is great job man... well... great job man. How about making a tutorial on making complex sigs, show Rolf and the rest of us how it's done? Constructive criticism and tutorials helps build the community, not "I'm right your wrong" post. And for the record, that's "help people with" anything, you've asked questions, the people of the forum have answered.



Yes We Do. Where do you think the classics got their materials? Do you honestly think thank Michelangelo went down to Pearl's Art Supply and picked up a 6 pack of plastic brushes and acrylic paint? True artist today still put their own special natural ingredients (not just factory batch chemical fodder) in their medium, and extra work in their substrate. Unless you dare call these Corporate Artist true artist, this is how professionals work.

How does this transfer over to the digital world? Well let's see. Where do you think the art for your Hulk came from? Men spent much of their lives developing a character, a story, a design. Dozens of people in draft meetings with countless sketches poured over the idea. Hours of painstaking hand drawings to complete the rough draft. Jobs created and lost in accounting, marketing, sales, distribution, all so that someone with a scanner and an internet connection can scan and upload the art. It flys around the world and lands in your Google image search for you to copy, photoshop, upload and say "I made it, I never stole anything!"

Here's some links you may find helpful (if you have read this far):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property

In closing, you said it best "Photoshop has brushes fro a reason, so YOU can get creative and make stuff for yourself. Ripping and helping are two different things"

And a special note to the mods: I am sorry for picking up on this troll-like post, but I believe that Rolf's tutorials are an excellent resource in this forum and I don't think it is right to give this kind of post no matter how much he thinks people "need to learn something." I believe the general population of this forum is no more mixed than your average crowd; suits, ponytails and propellerheads... but they all have the right to want to do something else with their life, and free guides like this are a stepping stone to (possibly) a new beginning.

I honestly dont even know where to start. You and I have two different concepts of ripping, people who go to google and get images to use in there sig's is a very common thing, infact almost all of the people I know who make sig's will get and use images of some type from many different places and use them in their work. You are probably thinking, well just because the majority of people use images from google does not make it right. Using an image, such as a sprite or something along the lines of stock pictures have almost nothing to do with ripping, sure people use copywritten material in their sigs but it also depends on the extent of which you use it. Certain places, such as deviant art reccommend that you ask the artist's permission before you use their work, and even then when you do happen to use their work, they dont expect you to copy the whole thing, change the color and use some text and call it your own. When i said here are some of my sig's, yes they are mine, I created it in its whole, did I mention the fact that I made the hulk from scratch? no, or how about the other images? I think not. Coming from someone who has been doing art for so many years I would have expected a more open response to the fact that I am saying what one whould and should not do. I am not saying that his guids need help or are whack, I am saying that the people starting to use photoshop should not be mislead to using other peoples created material. Images on google are not even always copywritten, but places like deviat art are made from someone entirely down to the last pixel. I also dont appreciate you assume I am not greatful that someone is making tutorials for the beginners, I think thats great, photoshop is a great skill to have, but my message to get across was using it correctly.

No stolen art? I'd like to see you try to sell your art commercially. You can't? Oh NoEs! Why not? Oh because it's copyrighted work. What you are making is fan art, which inherently contains the work of other artist. (more on this below). And if you want to waggle your "experience" rocket around as if it was some sort of argot password for giving your post prepotency, let me validate my own for you. I've been working with graphics for over 13 years, and been doing this professionally (as in primary paycheck) for more than half that time. I have a B.A. and I am applying to attend my school of choice for my masters degree with the intentions of pursing a doctorate before 2010. Still, I do not go telling people that I am better than them, I'm not even saying I'm better than you. I've helped many people on this forum with their graphics questions and I certainly don't hold it against them that they have less experience or less education than me.

That gets me too, the part where I said I used default brushes and even my own make the work mine, so yes, I could sell it. Maybe not the ones with the pictures or sprites, but yes I could sell the art that I created. And I also dont appreciate how you assume that I think I am better than the people reading this, or other people for that matter. I did nothing for you to think that, and also I do help people with photoshop, infact I have gotten many of my friends interested in it, but due to the fact that this is a video game oriented website, I decided to pass on making a tutorial for photoshop, and in no way does that mean I do not appreciate the fact that other people are making them. Rofl did a good thing to try and spread the word about photoshop and get people into it, I was just giving my 2 cents towards it, take it or leave it. You did not have to say anything back but you decided I was 'trolling' for merely expressing my thoughts, which I am entitled to have, and in some way I am getting the sense that you think I am calling someone out and you want to defend them. Thats not the case. The fact that you have been into art for about 13 years is an accomplishment, but in no way does that mean what you say to me should have a greater impact to the readers.

I copied images from deviantart and photoshopped my name on them.
I copied images from google and photoshopped my name on them.

Wow, what a difference that makes!

A big difference, and also you used the word copied, not ripped. You rip someones art work and put your name on it and then try to claim it.You 'copy' an image (if you must) and implement it into your sig so you can express a feeling or message or even to help the flow.

How does this transfer over to the digital world? Well let's see. Where do you think the art for your Hulk came from? Men spent much of their lives developing a character, a story, a design. Dozens of people in draft meetings with countless sketches poured over the idea. Hours of painstaking hand drawings to complete the rough draft. Jobs created and lost in accounting, marketing, sales, distribution, all so that someone with a scanner and an internet connection can scan and upload the art. It flys around the world and lands in your Google image search for you to copy, photoshop, upload and say "I made it, I never stole anything!"

As many examples as you use...no, honestly, did you think about this before typing it? There is an extremely high chance that the creator of hulk has 0 to nothing to do with half of the sprites and images of hulk on google. You took it way too far. If what you are saying is correct, then should I feel bad when I see a picture I like and add words, or even impliment it in a sig. Are you trying to tell me that that picture was taken from a camera, which was an invention by someone and because I am using an image that the device made I owe them credit, or have no right to use it? I think not.

[Marlo]

indeed i have noticed some people just copying tutorials off other sites but i keep my mouth closed as it doesnt seem to be hurting anyone. Also it may just be some peoples learning curve?

Also i think that if you do copy off someone in anything then you should give credit where credit is deserved (i think this cal be applied to anything, hacking or graphics)
Just leaveing a link to your stock images would be a good idea, Or just a mention? And /agree with lag you can only say its your own work if you made the whole thing from scrath (you took the photo, you drew the picture ect..)
Marlo out.