The act of believing

[AfterMidnight]

First off, some ground rules because I tried this in the shoutbox earlier and that discussion quickly turned too far.
#Please don't read further/reply if you haven't made peace with the fact that there are 'non-believers'
#Please don't show any even remotely disrespectfull replies
#Please don't post pros/cons of any religion
#Normal board rules apply obviously!

! Breaking any of these rules and probably more I haven't thought off from the top of my head will only screw both yourself, and me over.
I come here with a serious question and I am searching for a serious answer.

To make it further clear, I am not here to be informed of what religion would be best for me or the likes; I'm asking here about the "act of believing"; as in asking "how do I walk?".

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I ask you this, because at this point in my life I have no friends or relatives who I still talk to - and I've come to think that not having a religion is part of what caused this.

By this I don't mean all atheists are doomed to a life of solitude, its just that i'm in a stage of life right now where it in my case, has brought me.

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About me:
My name is John and I am 18 years old.
To briefly give you a profile of how I function, I am a 'justicar'. /dork
I have been brought up as an atheist with my own morals and values.
When I was 11 my non-religious dad and religious mom seperated.
When they did and was given the chance to chose between living with one or the other; I chose my mom and at the same time decided to shut my dad out of my life forever.
This, because he has dealt me great injustices over the time and I felt he didn't deserve my forgiveness.

This ofcourse lead me to learn allot more about my mom over the years.
It wasn't untill I was 16 that I found that she was religious.
I never even remotely thought she might of been, because although I was taught to respect people with believes - I never had been taught anything about a religion.

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It was at roughly the same time that the relation between us two started to tear.
Mainly, because she couldn't cope with my psychiatric instability.
Which was that I felt the need to rationalize everything, everyone does.
It became more and more obvious that people who do not deserve and do deserve; didn't recieve justice.
Needless to say, being my own father didn't work out well - sure I managed to figure out how to shave, and I eventually figured out what the hassle with girls was about.
But the means by which I learned, were either emberrasing, or hard - each with their trials of trying, failing and retrying.
And if I hadn't made the choice of serving what my dad deserved; I think some things just would of been a whole lot easier in just about every way.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As I said earlier, I'm in a stage where I don't speak nor even see any relatives and friends; and this has been going on for a few awfully lone months.
The internet is random, which has kept me here/sane - but whenever it fails to entertain me for a while, I can't help but reflect on my past.

Re-living the injustices made.
Asking myself, is this what I deserve?
Ofcourse, how can I fix this?
But mainly, how do I want to live from this point on?

The way I function as a human being now, hasn't served me too well.
I can't relate to other people; and the trial of even trying is becoming a hardship.
And I compared my life to that of others; and I feel that perhaps it's best to surrender myself to a religion; because that's roughly stated; a large club of friends who can relate to eachother.
And I read into it further; ofcourse it's more then that!
The biggest advantage, is that you're never alone.

Because then you'll have god(s).

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Coming to the point now!
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But becoming part of an religion is another hardship all together.
One that I'm trying to prepare for.
And the main part of a religion seems to be the act of believing.

Life won't change just because I change my religious state on facebook from atheist to another, I have to believe.

Right now; I use the word believe in phrases such as "I believe you are mistaken, 1+1=2, not 3." but very boldy put from what I observe reading into it, "I believe you are mistaken, 1+1 can be anything!" and it's this what I struggle with.
It's like I earlier stated, learning how to walk!
And that put a question in my head all together, because I'm already 18 years into my life.
If I were to get into an accident and had to relearn how to walk; it may not be possible at all.

tl;dr
I don't have a specific question but I'm looking for answers anyway.
Anyone with experience of accepting a religion, truelly accepting one; to share their stories.
Or your point of view and opinion, on what I just posted here.
Anything really, would be appreciated.


Please abide the rules if you do reply!

Sincerely,
John.

[The Lex]

Religion is a bunch of bullshit.

[Trollblod]

Religion is a bunch of bullshit.

Agree with Lex

[Skuddle]

AfterMidnight,

You aren't asking the right questions in my opinion. I honestly have no idea what caused you to run to religion, maybe it was fate, maybe it was because your searching for yourself and trying to find something. Heres a little thinking you are going to need to do on your part. Religion is based on faith not science. Before anyone starts to /rant I am coming from a 2 sided view.

I have been to religious events, I have been to non-relgious functions. Both are fun. You have to find what makes you happy. Personally I think there is something out there. There has to be someone in power over everything. Someone governing the laws. I do not name it though. I dont pray, I dont ask for help because nothing out there in the world can help me but myself.

When people pray you dig deep inside the soul and look for the answer. But thats a flaw with humans. We start belittling ourselves that there is someone out there way higher that controls the world. Before the next person starts saying anything let me prove a few points.

-1. All religions say that God will do no harm, he will defend all mankind and aid where needed.

A: Why do we have disease.. why do we have poverty, why hasnt the giant foot stepped in to stop it.

-2. All religions say that some form of pre human ruined it.. IE Adam and Eve.

A: If god forgives all, like everyone preaches.. why did he not forgive Adam and Eve?

-3. A god does not judge.

A: Then re-look at how all the bibles and scrolls and toras, and readings are written. I am pretty sure god has judged every fabled character.

-4: God protects those who are in belief to him.

A: We still have the most holy people in the world.. dying. We have the most sinister non believing persons available in the world... living.

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I dont say there isnt a god.. but I think the term GOD means all being. We cannot talk to him. We cannot touch him, we cannot smell, taste or feel him. We empower ourselves with beliefs that we belive in. My view vs your view.. which then causes apprehension. Your take on my sentance vs another persons take.


Don't ask for a relegion.. but find what you think is the answer. Then believe.. cause without belief you just think shit happens because they happen. Which is bad.


Hopefully you realize you meet people the way you want them to. I have no family. I live with my girlfriend. Alot of the time I spend time online with my "virtual friends" because they wont judge me for what I do in my life. My WoW guildies are the closest thing I have to friends. Alot of people know I have money.. but they exploit it. Not my beliefs of friends on WoW.. they dont know what I am worth. Neither does a God.

[Unholyshaman]

Religion is a bunch of bullshit.

Agree with Lex

Both given infractions. Guys don't let a discussion like this get out of hand. It's fine to discuss but the moment you start making offensive comments it can turn ugly.

[Danne206]

I don't believe in god. I don't. I'm indeed an atheist.

I believe that people made up gods, religions and such just to get support when it's hard. Just like you. I ain't saying that it's wrong, I understand to 100%.
What they should do instead is to clean up everything. ie. Lost a friend / father? Go on! He wouldn't want you to give up your life just because of him!
If you ask me, there is no god. There's way to much bad. Why would god let my best friend die? Or anyone at all? He cares about everyone, and everyones wellbeing? Bull-shit.

Good luck with your life :]
~Just my thoughts.

[AfterMidnight]

You give my thread hope

It started when I found myself to be without anyone's companionship; for which I can only blame myself.
Then I was thinking that making new friends would be easier if there was a topic we could converse about, of something we may even have in common.
Then after reading into religions all together, I started my questioning as to 'what if there really is something there above?'

I know it's true that even if I believe, I'll never see a god still; but if I could just accept that and believe regardless, that'd be a big accomplishment for me.
Because if I can do that much, perhaps I can stop trying to rationalize what every being in my surroundings does; aswell as let go of my past.

As for your points, perhaps a good place to start is for me to finally read the bible; maybe I'll find a few answers in it too.

Thanks mate
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I like your point of view Danne206, you're me in an eggshell :P
But now I'd just like to change up my life; I know my prayers wouldn't save the world, not even change it the slightest.
But it's very tempting to submit myself to a god, if that means I can be one of those people who can find closure in him aswell.

Cheers for your post

[~OddBall~]

Ok so the 2 nubs above me are a bunch of fgtries that should grow up EDIT: At time of writing this was lex and Vinland. Ignoring them I'll tell you about my story.

I was brought up as a christian from day one, my dad was a minister himself and my mum was a christian. So pretty much I've done the whole attending church every sunday thing etc. etc. I'm 18 now and throughout all those years I'd had tonnes of discussions/debates with people about christianity and atheism. The atheists always thought they were right and that I was some kind of lunatic this always frustrated me.

(Prepare yourself for lots of rants/long story etc.) Basically the atheists thought it was stupid that and I quote "Some dude can magically say stuff and shit would appear" sure say it like that and it sounds kind of retarded as does "an explosion just came out of nowhere and created something that's so complex it's beyond our reckoning."
Yet they were always happy to believe the latter, just cos they were under the impression it was proven. Obviously both of those comments are just twisting how it is to make it sound stupid to better satisfy their own personal beliefs (or as they put it, FACTS).

Now if you look at it from a completely non-biased point of view you either believe that the world was created with some form of intellgence behind it, or that something happened that caused the BIG BANG etc. or something similar. So really you have to choose which one of these you think makes more sense. Now personally when I look at the world around me, the complex human emotions, the scale of the universe: The Scale of the Universe and all the other million things I refuse to believe that there was no form of intelligence behind it. That's just my opinion others are free to believe what they want, I don't give a shit, I don't force my opinion on you and vice-versa and i'm happy.

Anyways, as I said I was a christian, until this year. The thing was I'd had all these debates etc. with atheists and others of the like, every argument I always had an answer too and then one day I realised something and my entire christian faith just went to the shitter. What I thought went something along these lines:

Human-kind is an incredible thing, truely. Look at where technology is today, look at the works of art (the Mona Lisa etc.), look at our ability to communicate via languages etc. what I realised was that if human's are capable of those things then a human is capable of writing the bible. Now maybe the bible was written based on events to do with God but unless God himself tells us that we are just blindly putting faith in something that could have just as easily been written by a human. Some say God has spoken to them and that what he said has proved to these people that christianity is true etc. Which is fine, but I know for sure never in my 18 years of being a christian did I feel that God had 100% spoken to me and that he was telling me christianity is the truth, there were times I thought he was speaking to me but when I looked back on it, it was just a feeling of me having fun etc. and I could not prove that it was 100% God.

Now this is all the stuff I had thought of, so I took a step back and looked at it. I came to the conclusion that as I had said, I felt that their had to be some form of intelligence behind our creation so therefore I believed there was a God. However I also knew that no God had ever spoken to me in a way that I was 100% sure it was God speaking to me and certainly no God had told me that christianity was the way to go. So when it came down to it I believed there was a God of some kind but at this stage I didn't believe in christianity anymore

So where am I at now? I believe that there is a God, however unless God speaks to me in a way that I can be 100% sure it's him, I can't follow a religion until i'm told by God which one to follow. For all I know God just made us and wants us to live our lives as the human race and not even acknowledge him who knows?!

So I hope my story and realisations made some sort of sense to you, it's long and it's confusing stuff to rap your head around but I hope you get it, PM me if any questions.

As for your predicament, there is nothing better than friends! Start up a hobby and just chill with the people you meet, they will look out for you and always give you the opportunity to have a good time. I am happy where I am atm, and am learning everyday.

anyways /end long story!!!!

-Odd

EDIT: Kookie, your questions are very flawed, you obviously don't understand the religions you're questioning.

[AfterMidnight]

I appreciate you aswell for taking the time to write this big and fascinating story.

I'd like to ask if you have given god 'credit' for anything in your life, because you have an unique'ish way of believing in him.
As in, has god influenced you in any way that made you to be who you are today?

This could be an influence in judgement, or perhaps you met your friends at the church and like to think it was his doing to bring you together.
Do you find closure in entrusting him with your thoughts/problems?
And also, has your life turned for the worse when you gave up on christianity (if even slightly) ?

Cheers once more for taking the time to write this down

[Skuddle]

EDIT: Kookie, your questions are very flawed, you obviously don't understand the religions you're questioning.

My questions are not flawed really. I just appended and put a short version of them. I also encompassed all religions into one. I know the basis of relgious information. How many versions of the Bible, Korran, Tora, Scriptures, Leiments, etc are there? How many of them are exact matches of eachother? How many include all the scriptures? Tell me one.

I am not going to fight about which relgion is right, however they are all off the same pre-dated information from writings. Its almost like a bed time story that was told from grunts that got translated along the way.

Scientifically speaking, all the writings in the world dont exsist technically.

God was BC.. the only languages to live from that era are Latin, and grunts. Latin which is the basis from all languages came from Greek symbols.. which came from engravings.. which came from symbols. For all you know someone who was the "go to" guy read the bird on the statue overlooking a lake as... end of the world.

There is no proof, nor is there no non proof. However Science is always flawed. There is always a half way point between two objects. If thats the case how do you reach 0.

Theres your proof.

There is really only one god thats proven.. and thats Google.

» PROOF #1

Google is the closest thing to an Omniscient (all-knowing) entity in existence, which can be scientifically verified. She indexes over 9.5 billion WebPages, which is more than any other search engine on the web today. Not only is Google the closest known entity to being Omniscient, but She also sorts through this vast amount of knowledge using Her patented PageRank technology, organizing said data and making it easily accessible to us mere mortals.

» PROOF #2

Google is everywhere at once (Omnipresent). Google is virtually everywhere on earth at the same time. Billions of indexed WebPages hosted from every corner of the earth. With the proliferation of Wi-Fi networks, one will eventually be able to access Google from anywhere on earth, truly making Her an omnipresent entity.

» PROOF #3

Google answers prayers. One can pray to Google by doing a search for whatever question or problem is plaguing them. As an example, you can quickly find information on alternative cancer treatments, ways to improve your health, new and innovative medical discoveries and generally anything that resembles a typical prayer. Ask Google and She will show you the way, but showing you is all She can do, for you must help yourself from that point on.

» PROOF #4

Google is potentially immortal. She cannot be considered a physical being such as ourselves. Her Algorithms are spread out across many servers; if any of which were taken down or damaged, another would undoubtedly take its place. Google can theoretically last forever.

» PROOF #5

Google is infinite. The Internet can theoretically grow forever, and Google will forever index its infinite growth.

» PROOF #6

Google remembers all. Google caches WebPages regularly and stores them on its massive servers. In fact, by uploading your thoughts and opinions to the internet, you will forever live on in Google's cache, even after you die, in a sort of "Google Afterlife".

» PROOF #7

Google can "do no evil" (Omnibenevolent). Part of Google's corporate philosophy is the belief that a company can make money without being evil.

» PROOF #8

According to Google trends, the term "Google" is searched for more than the terms "God", "Jesus", "Allah", "Buddha", "Christianity", "Islam", "Buddhism" and "Judaism" combined.

God is thought to be an entity in which we mortals can turn to when in a time of need. Google clearly fulfils this to a much larger degree than traditional "gods",
» PROOF #9

Evidence of Google's existence is abundant. There is more evidence for the existence of Google than any other God worshiped today. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If seeing is believing, then surf over to Google and experience for yourself Google's awesome power. No faith required.

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Now I expect to be hung from a tree for that. But hey. I gave my 2 cents.

[Unholyshaman]

Guys this is NOT a debate about whether religion is real or not. Keep to the topic of helping AfterMidnight, NOT trying to prove if you are right or not.

[~OddBall~]

I appreciate you aswell for taking the time to write this big and fascinating story.

I'd like to ask if you have given god 'credit' for anything in your life, because you have an unique'ish way of believing in him.
As in, has god influenced you in any way that made you to be who you are today?

This could be an influence in judgement, or perhaps you met your friends at the church and like to think it was his doing to bring you together.
Do you find closure in entrusting him with your thoughts/problems?
And also, has your life turned for the worse when you gave up on christianity (if even slightly) ?

Cheers once more for taking the time to write this down

My best mate is a christian and he asked me the same questions, whether or not I could look back in my life and see whether God influenced the events within them. Short answer: no

Long answer: Pretty much everything in my life so far has been due to parents moving to new churches as they got new jobs etc. and hence I've met and made awesome friends etc. But are these outcomes due to God's hand? Maybe, but when you look at it from a completely unbiased point of view (i.e. a believer and a non-believer's point of view) you could say that sure, God purposefully brought me into life with christian parents, he guided my parents to move thus helping me make some awesome friends etc. etc.

Or you could look at it like an atheist would: Well I was born into earth just like every human being is, my parents got new jobs which forced them to move, just like any ordinary parents. I made friends along the way just like any ordinary kid

I can not look back on my life and see any events where it was drop-dead obvious that a particular event was caused by God.

Has my life been better or worse since I decided to not believe the christian faith? No difference really. I still have struggles and I still have points where things are going awesome, right now I couldn't be more happy with where I am in life.

Don't come thinking religion is going to make you a happier person/your life better. Being religious brings many trials and troubles with it and is not an easy road to making you feel really good/sure about life (not saying it's wrong either) I'm a completely unbiased believer in God, I just don't believe any of the religions atm.

Guys this is NOT a debate about whether religion is real or not. Keep to the topic of helping AfterMidnight, NOT trying to prove if you are right or not.

I'm not xP but in that case I'll ignore skuddles post cos that would turn it into a whether or not religion is real or not debat HAHA.

[AfterMidnight]

Lol µKookie, not sure what to reply towards the notion that google = god; it's a funny point but I'm searching for something that wasn't created a quarter into my lifetime :P

US, cheers for your continues moderation

Oddball, I cant express enough how much I appreciate your time
Your posts are the kind of texts I'm looking for.
Even though I had kind of hoped for another answer, but perhaps that was just silly. ^^'
It's confusing when you provide both points of view on one subject, they both make sense in a way.
Not discouraged though, I still want to experience this for my own.

Still unsure how to commit myself, but perhaps I should read the bible and visit a church for further assistance.
I posted here for fast answers and I have recieved; I don't expect you guys to turn my life around through a post. :P

Still curious about further opinions ofcourse, but no obligation as to the threads purpose.
Cheers

[~OddBall~]

You seem to be keen on the idea of turning to religion. Just be careful, the correct reason for turning to a particular faith is because you felt you were prompted by God to believe the religion, whereas you seem to be trying to turn to religion as more of a social need, but don't let me stop you, I just suggest you make sure you're doing it for all the right reasons.

[AfterMidnight]

You seem to be keen on the idea of turning to religion. Just be careful, the correct reason for turning to a particular faith is because you felt you were prompted by God to believe the religion, whereas you seem to be trying to turn to religion as more of a social need, but don't let me stop you, I just suggest you make sure you're doing it for all the right reasons.

I'm still an atheist, look at things quite bluntly; and my initial reason WAS for socialization; but that's no longer the case.
It'll be nice to belong to a group, but I understand and feel that the greatest gain would be that god would be with you at all times.