Is Hearthstone really Pay 2 Win ? Decide for yourself.

[Apith]

Here's a video I found surfing through youtube. Basically the opponent plays 5 legendaries in a row and the guy beats him with regular cards.

It shows you that good play is good play regardless of the cash invested in the deck.

[TheQt]

100%, Got my key a few days ago. Completely pay to win, it's absolute bullshit.

[Ket]

I am not a pro at Hearthstone by no measure but that guy was just throwing away those legendaries with no taunt or protection so they could do damage. Also, sometimes you just get a good luck of a draw.

[bt411]

p2win is when the advantage can only be bought but not gained by playing -this is not the case here. Their bussiness is that they create a long grind to obtain the cards you desire and then offer to skip through it by paying them money.

The real problem i see: those without money will bot to skip the grind and real players can enjoy playing vs mediocre bot opponents.

[Seminko]

p2win is when the advantage can only be bought but not gained by playing

Now, this is where you're wrong. Pay to win is not when the advantage can ONLY be bought but when the advantage can be bought.

If two ppl of identical skill were to go head to head on the first day of the launch and one bought a zillion boosters and the other did not. Guess who would win. That's pay to win.

Obviously it's pay to win only for a limited time, depending of course how often will Blizz release "expansions".

But it's still P2W nonetheless...

[bt411]

Now, this is where you're wrong. Pay to win is not when the advantage can ONLY be bought but when the advantage can be bought.

If two ppl of identical skill were to go head to head on the first day of the launch and one bought a zillion boosters and the other did not. Guess who would win. That's pay to win.

Obviously it's pay to win only for a limited time, depending of course how often will Blizz release "expansions".

But it's still P2W nonetheless...

I don't believe in measuring p2win by whether it gives a temporary advantage because otherwise all mmos would be affected due to goldsellers and RTM in general.
Thats why i think setting the border at whether the devs offer exclusive advantages or not is better.

Also maybe some interesting thoughts:
What if the shop came after players with said advantage already existed through playing? Example: is it p2win if blizz started selling lvl90 charakters in wow?
It clearly is still a huge advantage to those who have to invest time leveling. If you look at now you already can aquire lvl80 characters legit over death accounts (ressurection scroll and then transfer to main acc) and furthermore you can skip goldgrind by simply buying the store pets and reselling for gold- its their legal houseintern RTM trade.

[Seminko]

I don't believe in measuring p2win by whether it gives a temporary advantage because otherwise all mmos would be affected due to goldsellers and RTM in general.
Thats why i think setting the border at whether the devs offer exclusive advantages or not is better.

Also maybe some interesting thoughts:
What if the shop came after players with said advantage already existed through playing? Example: is it p2win if blizz started selling lvl90 charakters in wow?
It clearly is still a huge advantage to those who have to invest time leveling. If you look at now you already can aquire lvl80 characters legit over death accounts (ressurection scroll and then transfer to main acc) and furthermore you can skip goldgrind by simply buying the store pets and reselling for gold- its their legal houseintern RTM trade.

I understand your thought process but first off we have determine what is the "WIN" aspect of every game. Sometimes it is not a WIN per se, like for example in MMOs.

So let's say in WoW. What could be the win aspect? There is none per se because there is no endboss after which the game ends. But there is this imaginary line which most of the players consider their goal in every expansion which is to clear all the raid content with the result of getting the best gear. (We're talking about PVE obviously.)

Now, if WoW was pay to win it would not be due to acquiring gold because, yes I give you that, after an expansion is released you can buy a mediocre piece here and there for gold to get your started. But if WoW was pay to win like HS is right now you would be able to spend your dollars to buy high end raiding gear to allow you to even enter the raids (passing the ilvl cap) and to allow you to compete in high lvl raids.

If this was the case ppl would be raging about wow being P2W and they would be right. You would essentially be buying an advantage over other players to clear the endgame content faster (hence reaching the goal of PVE). But to your point, this is exactly the same as HS because this would also be just a temporary advantage. Because other ppl would eventually catch up to those ppl who paid. But does this fact change anything about it not being P2W? Absolutely not.

Please do not understand me incorrectly. I am not whining about HS being P2W because the majority of TCGs and CCGs are.

But you have to keep it real - HS is P2W nonetheless

[bt411]

To be honest i was looking at it mostly as a pvp player. Winning here is getting glad or 2,4k+ rbg for hero of the horde/alliance. For pvp players the biggest hurdle to play a fotm combo is leveling . Most high rated players i know overcame it through botting or paying someone else to lvl for him. Many also buy gold for enchants&gems cause they have zero desire to grind to play the content they wish to play. So the pay 100% for all the hurdles that stand before the content they wish to play. Less grind means 100% of their playtime is spend in pvp which is obviously a training advantage when it comes to reaching the top.

[Seminko]

To be honest i was looking at it mostly as a pvp player. Winning here is getting glad or 2,4k+ rbg for hero of the horde/alliance. For pvp players the biggest hurdle to play a fotm combo is leveling . Most high rated players i know overcame it through botting or paying someone else to lvl for him. Many also buy gold for enchants&gems cause they have zero desire to grind to play the content they wish to play. So the pay 100% for all the hurdles that stand before the content they wish to play.

Yea, I guess HS is closer to PVP than PVE. But my point still stands. Imagine a new arena season starting right now you would be able to buy all the top gear for money. Sure, there would be thousands of videos making fun on noobs who bought all the top gear getting their ass kicked by glads in blues BUT it would still be considered pay to win BECAUSE if such gear would be acquired by a glad who would be facing another glad without the gear there would be a significatant advantage going on.

[Poglia]

No, it's not pay to win. You can unlock all the card by simply playing. Sure, it will take a long time, but it's definitely possible.

Remember that Blizzard has to get money somehow, otherwise they wouldn't release and update the game.

[Seminko]

No, it's not pay to win. You can unlock all the card by simply playing. Sure, it will take a long time, but it's definitely possible.

Remember that Blizzard has to get money somehow, otherwise they wouldn't release and update the game.

Have actually read what's in this thread? Would you consider being able to buy all the top pvp gear at the first day of a new arena season in WoW P2W?

Discussing the financial side does not make a difference. We're not trying to decide WHY Blizz made it that way, because it is obvious.

[balladeur]

All cardgames are pay to win! I hate it when companies like that release a game that everyone wants to have their say about it even if they don't know anything about cardgames.
Stop with paytowin bullshit and just play the game and if you don't want to pay for other cards don't but that's a part of every card game. It's not because blizzard made one, now every aspect is going to chance of a cardgame.

[Seminko]

All cardgames are pay to win! I hate it when companies like that release a game that everyone wants to have their say about it even if they don't know anything about cardgames.
Stop with paytowin bullshit and just play the game and if you don't want to pay for other cards don't but that's a part of every card game. It's not because blizzard made one, now every aspect is going to chance of a cardgame.

You new folkes really need to learn to read the thread you are replying to.

Please do not understand me incorrectly. I am not whining about HS being P2W because the majority of TCGs and CCGs are. But you have to keep it real - HS is P2W nonetheless

Nobody is saying that is a bad thing, or an unusual thing or a thing that needs to be changed.

[frostygh]

I don't believe that it's "pay2win", first off Blizzard is going with the usual card game way and with usual card games you bought a pack of cards and built your deck from there on.
Secondly you can gain all the cards through time.
In the video its a lot of RNG and i believe you can beat people with legendary cards too
Cheers

[slotcar11]

It's not pay to win. You can get everything in the game by playing, the most effective way being going infinite at arena.

You could invest $150 and get a very very solid collection of cards. That would only buy you 10 drafts on magic online or maybe one good constructed deck. This game is cheap compared to the alternatives.