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  1. #1
    bt411's Avatar Member
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    Rogue Arena Startup help

    Saw that there are no updated guides and thought i could share my
    experience with the rogue class with those who are new to it.
    I myself play rogue since wow release, went to about 1,7k rating in recent
    season with only blue gear (don't raid much)


    This is a Guide for those who want to start with the arena as a rogue
    you might be able to find all of this information elsewhere but i summed it up
    for you and gave some of my own input so that you can save some time
    looking trough the net. The information provided here is to get you started
    fast and easy without breeding over thousand possibilites. That means if
    you're interested and want more it might be worth checking some links at the
    end of this post.
    If something is unclear or you see an error please reply in this thread.


    First the spec:
    The golden rule normaly is that you play according to the weapons you
    posses but that mostly counts only for pve. In wotlk the dominating build is
    multilate and that means daggers. Hemo is death as is Shadowstep. If you
    can't or don't want to use daggers you're only good choice is combat. Still
    depending on your team setup and your own playstyle it might be best to
    deposit those epic swords in your bank and get your blue daggers out for
    multilate
    (thats what i did in this season after facing to many rogues as double dd)



    Multilate 41:5:21
    the standard -max control, really fun


    HfB -Hunger for Blood 51:x.x //just here to take note that it exists, if you're starting just go with the build above
    provides more dps but at the cost of less control & no setup):


    Combat
    Viable with a healer, a lot of people can't handle it, some are really sucessfull
    -might be worth a try

    (pictures link to the builds)

    What spec should i take?
    You have no healer:
    go multilate.

    You have a healer:

    go multilate.
    might try HfB if there are many plate enemies and less other mut rogues as
    with your lack of heightened senses you're an easy target for mut rogues

    go combat if you hate daggers or if you feel daring ; )


    So what about equip?

    If you can't kill them, 10 seconds more til death mean jack.
    So my advice is to get some pve gear. I'm running with 4pvp parts rest all pve .
    Overall resilence is primary there to save you from RNG death which means stuff like tripple crits.
    An Example:
    Lets say the enemy has 30% crit
    a) you have 0resil : 0.3^3 = 0.027 = 2.7%
    b) you have 5% resil : 0.25^3 = 0.015625 ~ 1,56%
    also 10% less damage

    -the chance that the crit kills you in one sec has been cut by half

    c) you have 10% resil : 0.25^3 = 0.008 ~ 0.8%
    also 20% less damage

    the question is where is the point where more dps trough pve gear is worth
    the loss in survivability -i go with at 5% crit resil. I live long enough to get my stuff done.
    If i can't kill them with my dps more seconds won't help as all the cooldowns have been blown anyway.

    Also depending on your gear you might change your build accordingly
    for example : if you got full pve gear and dps is good but you live to short
    you might take the points from improved cheap chot into deadened nerves.
    With pvp gear vice versa.

    Glyphs
    Major Glyphs:
    For Multilate / HfB
    _____________
    Multilate Glyph (energy cost -5)
    Vigor Glyph (10 Energy more)
    Eviscerate (10% more Crit chance)

    For Combat
    _____________
    Adrenaline Rush (5sec more for the effect)
    Sinister Strike (crits have 50% on extra combo point)
    Eviscerate (10% more Crit chance)

    Minor Glyphs:
    Vanish (30% faster after Vanish)
    last 2 minor don't matter as there are none relevant for arenas
    i prefer sprint (waterwalking as long sprint lasts) as the second one
    third is whatever you want to fill that space with (just pve non rading glyphs arround)


    Ressources:

    WoTLK Rogue Macros | Rogue-Rogue
    -macros

    http://www.mmowned.com/forums/wow-gu...rogue-pvp.html
    -guide from another forum member covering combat rotation, some makros
    and with hints about the ui

    3v3 Rankings - Rogue - Arena Junkies
    - arenajunkies in general is a good start for doing arenas seriously
    this one links to the ranking page for rogues i find it very helpful
    to check the equipments and enchants of those at the top -saves the time
    to look yourself for the best enchants & gems, you can do that with the armory to but here it is displayed way better

    Pocket Guide to WOTLK (updated for 3.1) - Elitist Jerks
    -While for Pve, the Rogue Pocket Guide includes a list were stat weights are listet -might give you a hint when comparing items.




    enchants / sockets:
    AGI vs AP
    The current state is take what you want, there is no general consent about what to take.
    Going all Agi gives you a little higher chance to kill them with RNG (crits / avoids)
    Going all AP gives you higher sustained damage
    i prefer Agi since i count on hard bursts

    to get an idea what sockets / enchants to get i recommend taking a look at the top rogues with the link provided above this

    Last word:
    Some skillpoints are arguable, some change depending on what bracket you run, overall following this guide should give you a good
    start but it is not the perfect way -that's something you have to find for yourself
    Last edited by bt411; 06-19-2009 at 08:40 AM.

    Rogue Arena Startup help
  2. #2
    Taylor123123's Avatar Member
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    Nice!
    Will be used when ding 80 on my rogue.
    Is great guide imo.

  3. #3
    bt411's Avatar Member
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    Combat Tactics
    General:
    If you are double dps don't forget your tricks of the trade
    -its 15% more damage for 6sec from your partner
    Be aware that giving the Buff early lets the enemys know that the stealthed player is a rogue

    Think ahead where the enemy expects you to be, avoiding aoe is vital. If you are detected try to restealth.
    Against bm hunters you can use this to your advantage. Once they have spotted you they often expect to have won the situation
    and send their pet at you -get behind some pillars or some other cover and kill the pet -congrats you just won the game.

    Restealthing is overall very crucial.
    It means getting out of combat for 5sec and going back into stealth without using vanish.
    Especially when you are left 1on1 going back into stealth can decide between lose or win.
    Blinding the enemy is the easy way. If you aren't on a healer gouging him or simply going directly to pillar-humping is
    the way to go -just watch out that they actually attempt to get you , some more experienced mannaclasses will just go back to
    drinking, mages can reg hp with their conjured food ...

    Don't forget that you are a leather class witch can go easily squish.
    Don't dive into action headfirst if you know there might be another rogue arround -let your partner open and when
    the rogues jumps on him you jump on the rogue -that garantuess often your win.
    That also often works with other classes -often they stay on the target they have choosen, so if your buddy is plate you might want to wait til they start on him and than go

    If the enemy is healer +dd try to get a pillar between them, taking your target out of healing range can often guarantee your win as
    they act rectless cause they think they got their buddy backing them up
    for example : warrior + healer, the warrior just rans after me wherever i go -so i make a turn arround the pillar the warrior follows and than we instagib him wihile his healer can't heal him cause of the pillar

    Take note of lag
    Lag means that the information where the other players are is delayed. If you move faster with sprint
    you increase the difference between where you really are and where the client of the other players shows you.
    This can be very helpfull in meele fights and also is important in Rogue Vs Rogue Situations.
    By using sprint when you're looking for other Rogues you increase the distance you can travel til the client of the other rogue will show you to him. That means with sprint you have a short timeframe where you are invisible for the other rogue as you enter his field of vision.

    Pre-Vanish: If lag fails you, use vanish to make you invisible for enemy rogues. If you use vanish i would always pop sprint too as you only get 10sec to find the other rogue
    -first hits are vital and if you get him it will be more worth than the vanish/sprint cd if you don't you can back up a bit to get your cd back.

    Infight
    Use your CD's wisely, don't blow your disarm while your evasion is still running.
    If your enemy got dots / bleeds on you, you are still able to vanish->opener directly,
    that gets you your opener, clears their targets and gets your buff 'amok' running again which equals more dps
    Don't buttonsmash your multilate. Having enough energy left to use kick to intercept cast, to use fan of knives against vanish , to blind the second guy if he pops his trinket, etc.
    is worth a lot.
    Last edited by bt411; 06-14-2009 at 05:06 AM.

  4. #4
    skratman's Avatar Member
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    Badbadbadbadbadbad

  5. #5
    ChildeRoland's Avatar Active Member
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    Skratman, try to contribute with something b4 you go flaming like that.

    Btw, the work for the HFB spec don't work, and I have enver ever seena ny hfb rogues in arena

  6. #6
    fearedtoast's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by skratman View Post
    Badbadbadbadbadbad
    No Trolling(Starting Fights/Useless Comments/Flaming.

    Why don't you take a moment and read this?

    http://www.mmowned.com/forums/genera...-handbook.html

  7. #7
    bt411's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by skratman View Post
    Badbadbadbadbadbad
    If you hate it, come up with some arguments at least *sigh*

  8. #8
    bt411's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by ChildeRoland View Post


    Btw, the work for the HFB spec don't work, and I have enver ever seena ny hfb rogues in arena
    They are almost non-existant.That's why i also skipped the build:P I don't play HfB but just wanted to make a note that the option exists.

    Perhaps i should have left that out. Ain't good for starting anyway as in the lower ratings there are tons of rogues. It's just cool if you see there are many teams with plate in the queue and none mut rogues -it helps against plate
    Last edited by bt411; 06-14-2009 at 04:43 AM.

  9. #9
    B ALLEN's Avatar Member
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    Helpful guide, I've actually posted a guide of my own which gets more detailed, but this guide covers the very basics, and you need those to start. +rep
    If I ain't good lookin you can bet my bitch is.

  10. #10
    Thimpey's Avatar Member
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    Nothing with sdance?


  11. #11
    whykay's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by bt411 View Post
    What spec should i take?
    You have no healer:
    go multilate.
    Decent guide overall but missed a couple of things.

    If you are running a double dps team in 2v2 you want to consider going Shadowdance spec. Specing shadowdance goind ambush dagger w fast offhand is the spec with most possible burst for a rogue atm and mobility.

    Check out Mahikosan on Cho'gall-US for tip on shadowstep spec its a pretty solid core, might want to change a few talents depending on your setup.

    Alterations can easily be made consider who you team up with, but this is what the core should look like.

    Glyphs:Shadowdance spec:
    Major: [Glyph of Vigor], [Glyph of Shadowdance], [Glyph of Cloak of Shadows/Tricks of the Trade/Preparation]
    Minor: [Glyph of Distract], [Glyph of Vanish] + [random glyph]

    Adapting to play as shadowstep is harder than Mutilate as far as ive experienced but is a very deadly spec. Tips on how to play.

    Some good Shadowdance movies: Unmercy 7, Mahikosan Trilogy, Six Silent Shadows (contains all specs). All movies can be found on warcraftmovies.com


    Dont even consider going HfB for pvp, its simply no good use and you miss out on too many core pvp talents in sub tree.

    +Rep

  12. #12
    bt411's Avatar Member
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    I left shadowstep out cause it was supposed to be a beginners guide.

    Usability wise it would be like this: 1 Button-pressing > Multilate >>>>>> Shadowstep

    The constant weaponswapping and the fact that your burst is shadowdance with 2min where you do only mediocre damage makes it not suited for starters imo

    In fact i should have left HfB out also, just forgot for whom i was writing for a moment
    Last edited by bt411; 06-16-2009 at 07:52 AM.

  13. #13
    Kuri's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by skratman View Post
    Badbadbadbadbadbad
    lol u funny simple mind
    eppersdance:
    ***--***--/////**\\\\\--***--***

  14. #14
    Wux's Avatar Member
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    Great guide, shall look at it when I ding 80 with my rogue, thanks! +rep if possible

  15. #15
    [Z]em's Avatar Contributor
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    this guide is brilliant and has helped me loads in arena, thanks alot dude.

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