Insane Vengeance Exploit/Trick

[rinkezhakao]

I'm pretty sure vengeance is based on whatever value of damage you take before mitigation.

[pdx15]

I'm pretty sure vengeance is based on whatever value of damage you take before mitigation.

correctly, such a mechanic. No there is no exploits\tricks. Shame not to know such basic things

[Saionara]

correctly, such a mechanic. No there is no exploits\tricks. Shame not to know such basic things

Wrote this, went to sleep, woke up to 16 comments.. Clearing some things up (will also change the main post):

If you stand in (examples, yay!) Annihilate on Garrosh Hellscream you'll get about 2-300k vengeance. Using this exploit will vengeance cap you. Again, as mentioned in the original post, vengeance gets incorrectly calculated because of the timing of which you use Diffuse Magic or Zen Meditation. It calculates vengeance thinking that you took the same amount of damage but through a 90% reduction, which is why it gives you 10 times the amount of vengeance. If combined with Zen Meditation & timed correctly, it'll calculate your vengeance as taking the original hit with 99% damage reduction, which will in most cases vengeance cap you.

No, rogues cannot use this as Vengeance is only availible to Tank specced characters. All of you clueless people saying this is intended, please go away..

[advanta]

Wrote this, went to sleep, woke up to 16 comments.. Clearing some things up (will also change the main post):

If you stand in (examples, yay!) Annihilate on Garrosh Hellscream you'll get about 2-300k vengeance. Using this exploit will vengeance cap you. Again, as mentioned in the original post, vengeance gets incorrectly calculated because of the timing of which you use Diffuse Magic or Zen Meditation. It calculates vengeance thinking that you took the same amount of damage but through a 90% reduction, which is why it gives you 10 times the amount of vengeance. If combined with Zen Meditation & timed correctly, it'll calculate your vengeance as taking the original hit with 99% damage reduction, which will in most cases vengeance cap you.

No, rogues cannot use this as Vengeance is only availible to Tank specced characters. All of you clueless people saying this is intended, please go away..

Is there any way to test what you are saying outside of a raid? The problem is that raids are time-consuming and require multiple people, therefore it is somewhat impractical to test this stuff out. What you say sounds very plausible and interesting, but the implementation seems to be proving very difficult.

[Romath]

Is there any way to test what you are saying outside of a raid? The problem is that raids are time-consuming and require multiple people, therefore it is somewhat impractical to test this stuff out. What you say sounds very plausible and interesting, but the implementation seems to be proving very difficult.

Play with ordos or a celestial?

[advanta]

Play with ordos or a celestial?

Yeah exactly that sort of thing. A video would be fantasic.

I'm levelling a monk for the explicit purpose of testing stuff like this out, but it probably needs someone
with experience of tanking

[Saionara]

Ordos or celestial works, aswell as challenge modes or even Heroic Dungeons. I'll work on getting some kind of video up shortly, going on vacation tomorrow so no promises on a quick UL!

[zaksterz]

can this be done as rogue? or only locks / monks ....

seriously, more than 200 posts on a forum for world of warcraft and you don'¨t know what vengeance is?

cmon, i haven't even PvEed since it was implemented and even I know...

[advanta]

seriously, more than 200 posts on a forum for world of warcraft and you don'¨t know what vengeance is?

cmon, i haven't even PvEed since it was implemented and even I know...

I think I only found out what it was properly when the palas started exploiting it. Unless you play a class you don't really know very
much about it.

[Murderr]

Prot paladin exploit was caused by them taking negative damage from over 100% mastery at level 80~ with a certain set of gear.

Anyways, we tried this on normal Garrosh just to give it a shit. There was no difference in vengeance gained from a soaked annihilate with cooldowns used before cast time and a soaked annihilate with cooldowns used as explained in OP.

I'm not sure if they'll allow me to try on Heroic garrosh but from what I see from logs, there is nobody in the top 10 brewmasters I've seen that get 10x vengeance (or even slightly more than each other) or else the max damage from their skills would be insane. Not to mention vengeance damage has been capped at your maximum hp for quite a while now.

If you could provide proof of it working with logs I guess I could stand behind it. From what I've seen of the technique to do it though, it is pretty far fetched and doesn't really seem viable.

its same mechanic/exloit m8 -_-
as i remember when you had less than 100% reduce damage around 85-90% - you just get much less veng than with 100%+
ps edited

[Saionara]

its same mechanic/exloit m8 -_-
as i remember when you had less than 100% reduce damage around 85-90% - you just get much less veng than with 100%+

..what? no clue what youre trying to say

[Norgrim]

This is what makes me think it is just the intended use of vengeance. The whole 90% magic damage reduction (thought of as a full hit) which gives you 10 times the amount of vengeance you normally get is basically how the mechanic works.

Example:

You take 100k damage from a Frostbolt. If you pop diffuse magic, you only take 10K but vengeance still calculates the entire 100K hit.

It lines up with his example too.

I will use your example to explain (if I understood it correctly)

Frostbolt does 100k dmg. You pop difuse magic right when frostbolt is about to hit you. It hits for 100k, due to some server lag (no reduction). The game, however, recognizes that you had difuse magic up when the frostbolt hit you, and since you took 100k dmg, it thinks that this is the dmg AFTER the reduction, giving you vengence as if the frostbolt was 1.000k dmg, ten times bigger.
Since zen med works the same way, IF it works (I didnt test it), it would give you 100 times more vengeance from a single attack.

[lewie4]

If people are not understanding this I'll try and explain it a bit better.

If a tank gets hit for X damage without any damage reduction they will receive Y vengeance.

If a tank gets hit for X damage with a 50% damage reduction they will receive Y*0.5 vengeance.

With this method if a tank gets hit for X damage and they pop a 50% damage reduction CD just before taking the damage the game calculates the vengeance received as Y*2. In essence it gets confused, thinks you got hit without a CD up, see's that you have one up and then multiples to what it thinks it should have been unmitigated.

[Saionara]

I will use your example to explain (if I understood it correctly)

Frostbolt does 100k dmg. You pop difuse magic right when frostbolt is about to hit you. It hits for 100k, due to some server lag (no reduction). The game, however, recognizes that you had difuse magic up when the frostbolt hit you, and since you took 100k dmg, it thinks that this is the dmg AFTER the reduction, giving you vengence as if the frostbolt was 1.000k dmg, ten times bigger.
Since zen med works the same way, IF it works (I didnt test it), it would give you 100 times more vengeance from a single attack.

If people are not understanding this I'll try and explain it a bit better.

If a tank gets hit for X damage without any damage reduction they will receive Y vengeance.

If a tank gets hit for X damage with a 50% damage reduction they will receive Y*0.5 vengeance.

With this method if a tank gets hit for X damage and they pop a 50% damage reduction CD just before taking the damage the game calculates the vengeance received as Y*2. In essence it gets confused, thinks you got hit without a CD up, see's that you have one up and then multiples to what it thinks it should have been unmitigated.

Correct.

/10char

[advanta]

If people are not understanding this I'll try and explain it a bit better.

If a tank gets hit for X damage without any damage reduction they will receive Y vengeance.

If a tank gets hit for X damage with a 50% damage reduction they will receive Y*0.5 vengeance.

With this method if a tank gets hit for X damage and they pop a 50% damage reduction CD just before taking the damage the game calculates the vengeance received as Y*2. In essence it gets confused, thinks you got hit without a CD up, see's that you have one up and then multiples to what it thinks it should have been unmitigated.

Thanks for that. If you don't mind, could you explain how this fits in with the vengance cap?: I thought this had been introduced to prevent exactly this type of angle.

The answer is probably obvious to 90 tanks, but it is quite difficult to envisage if you've never experienced it.