Rogue Guide

[Lonsdale]

With the recent uproad of apparent Rogue questions from people I think I'll take some time to run over the basics of a Rogue, Good talents and weapon use etc etc.

Please note that I am going to base this guide on MY play style and what MY Rogue does. This isn't a rulebook, It's a uhh...Journal? Sure.

I guess I should post my credentials :P
I play a 9th rank level 60 Troll Rogue on the Warsong server, US.
This is my Third Reroll of a Rogue, I also have a level 60 Undead Rogue and a 52 Orc Rogue.

The Troll that is now my main sits in 8/8 Nightslayer gear as of lastnight aswell as a full setup of Epic items from a mix of MC and Ony + BWL minus one Blue item, That being my 2% Crit trinket :P
In short, I like Rogues. =)

Lets start with some basics, I'll get this out of the way now just incase some people are in this mind frame:
You are a Rogue, Not a Warrior.
All of the Rogues out there who I see holding 2 Swords and running into Monsters/Players in PvP should re-roll and start a Warrior.
If you want to be front end DPS and the ability to rush up into people without getting your ass handed to you, Make a Warrior.

Basic Mumbo-Jumbo
Now that that's cleared up, As a Rogue you have quite a high advantage over most other classes, That advantage is called Stealth.
The ability to sneak around virtually unnoticed around your opponents is a very useful one, Especially if you use it wisley.
The number of abilitys you have to associate yourself with while in Stealth Mode are also devistating when used correctly.
Rogues are meant to be a Sneaking class that offer a potent DPS with amazing Burst DPS along with the ability to maintain a steady high DPS if you wield a Sword in your main hand.
Think about it, Rush into your opponent when they see you coming and try to hack away at them, Or Stealth up behind them, Hit them with Ambush or a Crit Ambush that will kick them for 1000-1500 damage and give or take 3-5 seconds to realize they are getting there ass kicked before they even begin to attack you! Excellent!

You also get a number of other useful skills such as Blind and Vanish to get out of sticky situations you might find yourself in and Poisons for an extra kick against your opponents.

Stealth and How to Use It
You'd be suprised how many Rogues don't use Stealth. It's your most useful tool by far, You have the ability to sneak past monsters that would otherwise interfear with whatever your planning on doing, Just want to take out one specific mob in and instance, Not do the whole thing? No problem!
Annoying group of Alliance scum in your way? Walk right on by!

First off you should have Master of Deception talent maxed, That should be one of your first things to get down along with Malice.
Stealth isn't a gaurenteed way around things. People will notice you. Opposing players will notice you easier then an NPC will, So if your new to the whole Rogue and Stealth thing, I guess it's a bit of trial and error to see exactly how far you can get from a player or an NPC before they will detect your presence. Once you've mastered that distance your in the clear an you can get around people with ease.
Now, Most times you won't really need to know that, A lot of the times Stealth is going to be something you use to make sure that Players or NPC's from a distance don't see you scurrying in a certain direction, But a lot of the time it will be for up close sneaking to, Especially when trying to sneak up on someone for a Poke.

Another important note is that when you Stealth you let off a noise that is heard by Players around you. It's not going to be a complete indication of "Oh shit theres a Rogue about to poke me in the ass" But it is an indication that someone is sneaking around you, It makes people more alert and more prone to seeing you if they are actually LOOKING to see if you are there.

Don't linger. Everybody lingers, They stay at the back of whoever they are about to attack as if it is something of being superior that you are behind this player and can attack them at will and they don't know about it!
As funny as that might be to think, It's only funny until they realize your there and begin to hand it to you.
Get to the point, While stealthing towards someone be Pre-Hitting the Hotkey associated with the attack you are about to do on them so you can do it the instant that you become in range of them, They don't have a chance to realize your there then and do something about it, And like I said when you get attacked instantly for a high amount of damage, It throws most people off guard and not only did you get a quick, high damage smack on them you get an additional few seconds to lay down some Sinister Strikers and regular hits while recieving no damage in return until they get around to turning to attack you and get over the initial "Oh shit".

Weapons
Well lets see, I personally use a 4-Weapon combination of 3 different Daggers and 1 Sword generally in different arrangements, I need 3 more Arcanite Reapers before I can finish my Thunderfury sword quest and have another sword to throw into the mix.
Download This
Or something similar if you don't already have one, It's a Weapon Swapper. You'll thank me.
This allows me to switch from a Sword - Dagger to a Dagger - Sword weapon arrangement in one click of a Hotkey.
What use does that have you ask? Plenty!

The majority of Rogue skills require a Dagger. Backstab and Ambush mainly, But Swords offer higher more sustained DPS in a battle.
Ambush gives you a very quick upper hand, And Swords give you upper hand DPS, I'll take both to go please.
Stealth, Approach your target with your Dagger in hand and Ambush, Click your switching hotkey and go back to a Sword - Dagger combo and now you can have that higher DPS you need to take down a Warrior in PvP.
Once you get good at this, You can Ambush + Switch Weapons for Sword DPS > Gouge using Sword > Switch again quickly while he is stunned and BS him with the dagger, Then switch back and go at Sword DPS again.
Works extremely well.

Weapon wise, There are a lot of things to choose from. For Ambush your going to want a slow heavy hitting weapon, It's going to result in more damage from your hit.
Barman Shanker is an excellent Ambush dagger, Slow with high damage for a nice kick in the butt. Relativley easy to obtain to with a few Rogues, Or even solo on your own!

The jewel of most Rogues eye as far as a Sword is concerned as you have probably already guessed is a Krol Blade.
While this is an incredible sword to have for your defenses, It sadly is not cheap and will run you into the 650-900g range depending on your server. Maybe that's in your price range, maybe you'll luck into it dropping for you, Who knows, But if you can ever get one I'd highly suggest it as it will be a sword you will use until you are in the position to get something from more high end content, And even then.
I use this sword to raid and pvp every day.


The other dagger in my tool shed is a Felstriker which sadly is about as common as flying pigs and free money. It drops off of Warchief Rend Blackhand in BRS and is less then fun to try and get. I just got lucky.

Now dispite the fact that I might have decent weapons I still refuse to delete my Thrash Blade which every Rogue should have.
I saw this sword on my first Rogue at level 9, I wanted it ever since. All 3 of my Rogues use/have used it and I always keep it in the bag just for good times.
It's pretty easy to obtain via a Quest you can get in Desolace and will do you depending on both your guild situation and your money situation right up to level 60. I used it at 60 until I got my Krol Blade and got into a decent guild that made decent drops available to me.

All of that sword praising aside, I find myself using 2 daggers more then a Sword. I'll use a sword if I need a higher DPS for a Warrior, if I have 2 people on me, or if I just want to hurt somebody, But often I'm seen with 2 Daggers while I look for something to poke.

Find your style, Maybe you'll want a sword and a dagger at all times, Maybe you won't.

Stunlock
Oohh the glory of this gem.
Let me break stunlock down for you briefly.
Cheapshot > Backstab > Gouge > Backstab > Kidneyshot > Backstab > Blind, Vanish repeat.
Or something similar, Depends on your build. This is a beauty, A bit annoying and I suppose you could call it unfair, But that Warrior sticking his fist down your throat doesn't think it's unfair that he can beat your ass senseless in a few seconds so why not take advantage of your skills and hand it to them for once?
When used correctly this is mind blowing, If you can get it done the second time around you can swap out the last Kidney shot and use it for a ColdBlood Eviscerate, that'll show em'.

Talents
And now on to the biggest topic of discussion on the boards regarding Rogues, Talents.

I'll put this right out here, Combat is a waste.
This isn't a rulebook and you can make whatever build you want and proclaim your success, I'll always find it useless. You sacrafice to many other good Talents from Assassination and Subtlety to get deep into the combat tree where it's worth it.

This is my talent Build, I'm in love with it. Do what you will :P

23/7/21 breaking down like this:

ASSASSINATION:
Improved Eviscerate Rank 3
Remorseless Attacks Rank 5
Malice Rank 5
Ruthlessness Rank 3
Relentless Strikes Rank 1
Lethality Rank 5
Cold Blood Rank 1

COMBAT:
Improved Gouge Rank 3
Improved Sinister Strike Rank 2
Improved Backstab Rank 2

SUBTLETY:
Master of Deception Rank 5
Camouflage Rank 5
Opportunity Rank 5
Initiative Rank 1
Improved Ambush Rank 3
Preparation Rank 1

I strongly doubt I'd use any other Build, And trust me I've spend hundreds of gold re-speccing my Rogues. No that wasn't a typo, Hundreds.

I have max camo for optimal Stealth speed, Master of Deception is a MUST for any Rogue, Helps you wander about in Stealth undetected.
Opportunity is more of a requirement I needed to get in order to get Improved Ambush, But 20% increased damage while hitting from behind is just that, 20% more damage aswell as Improved Ambush being 45% increase in Crit from that. I'm critting more then half of the time and I'm doing 20% more damage, Sweet!
Preparation lets me lay down 2 Coldblood Eviscerate's in one fight, Very useful.

Sadly, Only 1 point in Initiative because this build woulden't add up correctly otherwise, But 15% chance to add an extra combo point is good enough to make me smile.
Thats 3 Combo points for Cheapshot folks! Sometimes anyway..

Improved Sinister Strike speaks for itself. Less Energy = More hits with SS.
Improved Gouge gives me an extra full second and a half worth of stun time on that hit, Your thinking that isn't worth it, But believe me it is.
Increase the Critical Strike chance on my Backstab by 30% you say? Sure! Why not!

Assassination requires quite a bit to get down to Coldblood which is probably one of your most useful Combat skills, But it's worth it.

Remorseless gives you a 40% chance to crit on your next opening hit on your next Mob, Excellent for Grinding to get a good opening hit.

Ruthlessness + Relentless give you back Energy and add Combo points = More damage.
Malice = 5% Crit. Who doesn't want that?

Lethality is excellent. Higher critical hit damage is what we want people, And Improved Evis is an additional 15% damage on your highest damage move, Wonderful.

You can play around with builds of course, Maybe something from here doesn't tickle your fancy or it doesn't include an ability you usually like to have, Go mad! But this I find is the best pvp build I've used in all of my respecs and I'll stick with it until they either give me more talent points or give me new talents.

Feint
A very brief note about this ability, another one of your goals as a Rogue should be to master managing the aggro/hate of monsters, Know when to Feint and you'll get hit a lot less and the tanks will get hit a lot more.
You want the tanks being hit, Not you. Your the damage, You need to live.
I like to stick to the "3 Backstabs then Feint" rule of thumb, Mainly on Boss mobs that will beat me down quickly if I get aggro.
3 Backstabs is a decent space of time in between your Feints. Give that a go and see how it works for you.
This is mainly for Raiding mind you.

Remember, A stealthy Rogue is an up-close damage dealer.
High sustained single target DPS that you can unleash forever because you do not use Mana.
Use your skills wisley to your advantage, Especially Stealth.
Choose a build that works for you, Don't take things I say 100% and go with them, Just because they work for me doesn't mean they will for you, You might want to be a completely different kind of player.
Just don't go around without Malice cause I'll hunt you down :P

Your only disadvantage is the fact that you are a cloth wearer, This is why it becomes crucial that you master aggro on raid encounters so you can stay alive. Focus, Pay attention and know when to use Feint because if you get to caught up in doing as much damage as possible you will let aggro slip and you will die, Defense isn't your thing, Not being hit is.

Hope this helped some of you somewhat! If I left anything out that you would like answered or you like to know anything else about what I might do or how I might play, Ask away!

Keep on Pokin'!

[Cypher]

Excellent work. Thanks. Although I personally have never tried a rogue. Maybe I'll try my friends rogue account.

[trexya]

x) hi all, topic says "rouge" lol im bored <,<

[Matt]

lol! i'll fix it.

[asasin]

Omg thanks for this guide man it will really help me build up my rogue especially since my whole guild are telling me to spend my talents on combat :confused: Was confused but managed to get some good weps for my lvl (lvl33) and that wep switch program works a gem!!!

[motionpicturesoundtrack]

There are 52 talent points used there, with eight, not seven in combat. How do you get imp backstab up to three and still have enough for prep?

[Glikko92]

I have 2 rogues, my main which relys on 12-34-5 Cambat PvE Dagger spec, Always on top of dmg meter, Along with my little twink buddy with his stunlocks I say GG for Cambat dag

[Squirllz]

Very nice guide man.

[WarriorPwner]

gj man ty for sharing

[bokyong]

This was ripped from Redguides.com. This was posted like a year ago in redguidesby a rogue named bacstab. Hence to say this guide is outdated.

[Kuri]

nice guild for my rogue alt :-) tnx
Fred Perry

[whoosh]

Seems out dated...Krol Blade? =\

Also. weapon swap has been nerfed. There's a 1 sec CD and it restarts your weapon swing timer so in most cases it's detrimental.

Also, MoD is not a HAVE TO HAVE talent for every rogue. Raiding PvE rogues can skip this talent entirely as it serves no purpose in end game raids. Also, some pvp rogues choose to allocate the 5/5 points in MoD to other talents because you can still get the jump on people without MoD. They'll have an easier time seeing you but that's why you stealth in and CS or Ambush or w/e openner you use. You'll most likely be able to perform your openner before your target gets a chance to react and knock you out of stealth. most of the times,they won't see you until you've attacked them.


ALso! sword rogues should reroll warriors? No. Dagger builds and Sword builds both have their pros and cons. Different play styles, different strength and weaknesses. speccing swords won't make you any less of a rogue than speccing daggers.

[bokyong]

Like I said, this post is Old (written in 2005 by a guy named Bacstab) It is a good basic guide i guess for starters but the strategy is outdated as of 1.12. He is correct about Rolling a Troll over the Popular Undead. Although your Undead has Will of the Forsaken, the Trolls Berserking and Regen outweighs that Fear Breaker.

With the Trolls Regen, you can hide and regain health at a better rate than anyone.

[riath]

I think 21/8/22 is better. Thats just me tho..

[Neoblade]

Since 2.0.X came i find 41/3/7 the best, since it offers great damage, fast combo point building and a great aggro control. I would say this build is the best raid build just yet for rogues

And yeah, that guide is completely useless. Almost in any term :-l