Time equals AD, calculations why Leadership is never worth the effort. menu

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  1. #1
    JustTheDoctor's Avatar Sergeant CoreCoins User
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    Time equals AD, calculations why Leadership is never worth the effort.

    So, let's start by introductions. I am running a DC on Beholder with lvl 20 on mailsmithing, platesmithing and leatherworking (yes yes, Tailoring will be done before launch) and this is my first post in what I hope will be a series of profession related posts and guides. I always thought myself starting the guide with general 1->20 effiency guide, but I realised that 1) I most likely need to code a calculator for most efficient route from given startpoint. 2) People are quite efficient with their profession leveling as it is. Given this, I decided to attack the most common misbelief in Neverwinter since "Opening boxes is worth it in the long run".

    **Introduction: Leadership leveling**

    The leadership is a profession for earning additional Gold, experience points, Astral Diamonds and chests that hold common consumables, profession resources enchants or runestones. Leadership is the only profession that does not need any resources/assets that you cannot make or buy from the profession vendor. This is the most common (mistaken) reason why leveling leadership is so popular, but we will get to that later.

    It's largely known that leadership is the slowest profession to level. Given one mercenary and one slot doing the best task possible (Explore Local Area, 40exp/h) it will take a little over 3700 hours to get from 1-20. Even in the best possible situation (9 slots 18 heros) the time is still 260 hours (Protect caravan, Explore local area, chart the region and 100% bonus, totaling 660exp/h). That is more than 10 days of updating tasks every 30mins. To a quick comparison, even the slowest way (just gathering materials with one slot and one white dude) is only 2600h in any other profession. With fastest route (crafting armors) and 9 slots 9 grandmaster this can be as fast as 26h.

    **Comparison: Leadership rewards vs tailoring**

    Now, first reason people level leadership is the simple "Well I do it since it gives me free AD every few hours." While this is true, literally every other profession will give you AD so much faster. It gets funnier when you notice, that the more slots you have open, the more profitable other professions get. This comparison will be done with 3, 6 and 9 open slots, using best available assets. I will use tailoring as a comparison, to give leadership a change. let's pretend that you could buy 18 heroes at the same price as 9 grandmaster tailors (in reality, the difference is about 3 mil)

    When using 3 slots, best task in leadership is Patrol the Mines, giving you a [Mining Claim] 10s and 120leadership experience for 4h. Since mining claims seem to go for 800ad in AH, assuming 3 slots, 6 heroes you would net 30s, 2160ad every 2h, thats 1080ad and 15s per hour (AH cut included). So how can we match this with tailoring? When writing this, a bolt of wool cloth costs 75ad on Beholder 150ad on Dragon (sorry no toon on Mindflayer, I'm a failure I know). Gather Wool Scraps and Weave Wool Cloth take 20minutes total and 60copper worth of thread. Assuming 3 Slots and 3 Grandmaster Tailors, you will net 24 bolts of woolcloths and lose 7s30c in a hour. Even with 75ad per piece, that is 1620ad/h (stupid auction house taking 10%). So you have to ask yourself, is sacrificing ~22 silver worth 600ad, to me it is.

    Notable things, I don't know if anyone actually buys mining claims, but I know that wool cloth sells like there is no tomorrow, and you could easily get 100 per piece if you sell in nice quantities (I usually pay more so I don't need to open 100+ mails of single item). With 100ad per piece, you are looking at a whopping 2160ad per hour, double the rate of leadership. You also need lvl13 in leadership, but only 1 in tailoring. Not to mention the prices of assets. Also, tailoring will take only about 54minutes, not 1h to get to 24, just used 24 to make it easier.

    So, time for 6 slots then, next best thing in leadership is Explore Local Area giving you 1x [Local Map] per hour. They seem to sell for around 175 per piece. Meaning doing this in 3 slots with 6 heroes gives you a 675ad/h (AH cut included.) Added to the mining claiming leadership will be at 1755ad/h.

    Tailoring on the other hand does not suffer from the 3 task limit, since you can gather and weave as much as you like. In tailoring even lowest price for wool will give you 3240ad and lose you ~15s per hour. If we place wool cloth to 100ad/piece this will be as much as 4320ad/h

    Lastly, we have the 9 slot (Although I know that there are only handful of players this far). The third best task in leadership is Protect Caravan, giving you 1 silver, 200ad and 40 leadership exp in 2h. Assuming 3 slots, 6 heroes for this task you will net a whopping 600ad 3silver per hour, increasing the total to 2355ad/h 18s/h. Tailoring will grow like always, giving a nice 4860ad/h at 75ad/piece or 6480ad/h at 100ad/piece with loss of ~23s/h.

    **Conclusion on rewards**

    So, we see that leadership is hardly worth it even if you invest double the amount than normal profession, you still end up on the losing side. This conclusion is really to just sum things up.

    If we assume 30 gold is worth one key, and one key is worth 40k, the Patrol the Mines task will give one key per 200h, while tailoring will lose about half key in the same time. This adds 200ad/h to leadership (1280ad/h for 3slots) and subtract 100ad/h from tailoring (1520ad/h or 2060ad/h depending on price).

    So the profits leveling don't cut the case for leadership, how about lvl 20 tasks. Unless the tooltip is wrong, even the epic [Very Large Chest of Goods] has chance for only blue material drops, and even the cheapest task for the chest costs 10k in materials, so no, not worth it by a long shot. Unless leadership gets drastic changes, I don't suggest it unless you are 20 in all the other professions (at which point, money is no longer an issue).

    **Afterword**

    So quite long start to a series. Please comment and give suggestions what profession related stuff you would like to see next. Hope this helps any of you.

    **TL:DR**

    Ugh, I know someone will need this, so here is a simple table:

    **Leadership**

    | slots | TASK | REWARDS/H |
    | 3 | 3x Patrol the Mines | 1080ad 15s |
    | 6 | 3x Explore local area | 675ad |
    | 9 | 3x Protect caravan | 600ad, 3s |

    Total: 2355ad, 18s per hour

    **Tailoring wool at 75/piece**

    | slots | TASK | REWARDS/H |
    | 3 | 3xGather + 3xWeave Wool | 1620ad |
    | 6 | 3xGather + 3xWeave Wool | 1620ad |
    | 9 | 3xGather + 3xWeave Wool | 1620ad |

    Total: 4860ad -23s per hour.

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  2. #2
    tiamatq's Avatar Private
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    You're doing leadership wrong, if you unlock 6 slots you can get 22,200 AD & 18.8g (on average) every 8 hours per 1 character. If you don't want to spend a penny you buy keys with gold, broker them for AD...transfer AD to Zen and buy character slots.

    I have something like 14 characters doing a rotation, the only reason I ever need to touch the broker is to sell keys, i'm hoping they institute a gold for AD micro-transaction as well.

    I get the distinct feeling you posted this baiting this type of response to see if you have overlooked anything, and suffice it to say items in boxes vendor for decent values on average. Even if you get 10 potions in a day, sometimes you will get 15g or so worth of vendor materials on other days.

    If you also take into account the exponential growth possibilities with 25-30 toons doing this + praying you can see where this gets quickly.

    It's taken two weeks but i'm almost to max rank 10 enchantments in all slots without ever buying a coal ward or farming/buying runes (again things you get in chests or for praying).
    Last edited by tiamatq; 06-17-2013 at 05:48 AM.

  3. #3
    JustTheDoctor's Avatar Sergeant CoreCoins User
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    Originally Posted by tiamatq View Post
    You're doing leadership wrong, if you unlock 6 slots you can get 22,200 AD & 18.8g (on average) every 8 hours per 1 character. If you don't want to spend a penny you buy keys with gold, broker them for AD...transfer AD to Zen and buy character slots.

    I have something like 14 characters doing a rotation, the only reason I ever need to touch the broker is to sell keys, i'm hoping they institute a gold for AD micro-transaction as well.

    I get the distinct feeling you posted this baiting this type of response to see if you have overlooked anything, and suffice it to say items in boxes vendor for decent values on average. Even if you get 10 potions in a day, sometimes you will get 15g or so worth of vendor materials on other days.

    If you also take into account the exponential growth possibilities with 25-30 toons doing this + praying you can see where this gets quickly.

    It's taken two weeks but i'm almost to max rank 10 enchantments in all slots without ever buying a coal ward or farming/buying runes (again things you get in chests or for praying).
    Mind posting the tasks and assets used to get those results, since I sure as hell cannot see them in the list. Also, the prices of Wool Cloth on dragon are currently at 150ad/piece, netting 51000ad in 6 slots and 8 hours, so still profitable.
    Last edited by JustTheDoctor; 06-17-2013 at 06:55 AM.

  4. #4
    ocnwo's Avatar Member CoreCoins User
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    I know leadership is a more complicated calculation due to the 3 task limit but it seems to me that it would be a more valid across the board comparison to have a baseline.

    Ex:
    1 slot
    White assets

    This would take a lot of the extra math (asset bonuses etc) out of the equation, for purposes of easy aide by side comparisons to find the most efficient xp, AD, and gold tasks.

  5. #5
    JustTheDoctor's Avatar Sergeant CoreCoins User
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    Originally Posted by ocnwo View Post
    I know leadership is a more complicated calculation due to the 3 task limit but it seems to me that it would be a more valid across the board comparison to have a baseline.

    Ex:
    1 slot
    White assets

    This would take a lot of the extra math (asset bonuses etc) out of the equation, for purposes of easy aide by side comparisons to find the most efficient xp, AD, and gold tasks.
    Ugh. you get close to that halfing every leadership gain, and tailoring turns into 1200ad/h for 75, 1620ad/h for 100 per 3 slots. I kinda figured people would know how to calculate that much themselves.

  6. #6
    sdowned's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by tiamatq View Post
    You're doing leadership wrong, if you unlock 6 slots you can get 22,200 AD & 18.8g (on average) every 8 hours per 1 character. If you don't want to spend a penny you buy keys with gold, broker them for AD...transfer AD to Zen and buy character slots.

    I have something like 14 characters doing a rotation, the only reason I ever need to touch the broker is to sell keys, i'm hoping they institute a gold for AD micro-transaction as well.

    I get the distinct feeling you posted this baiting this type of response to see if you have overlooked anything, and suffice it to say items in boxes vendor for decent values on average. Even if you get 10 potions in a day, sometimes you will get 15g or so worth of vendor materials on other days.

    If you also take into account the exponential growth possibilities with 25-30 toons doing this + praying you can see where this gets quickly.

    It's taken two weeks but i'm almost to max rank 10 enchantments in all slots without ever buying a coal ward or farming/buying runes (again things you get in chests or for praying).
    which tasks? Does this require level 20 leadership?

  7. #7
    ZeroHackX's Avatar Corporal
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    Slightly more work but it does net you more for the extra work put into it.

  8. #8
    istari21's Avatar Corporal
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    ALCHEMY!
    who test it on pts, what imba potions can craft?

  9. #9
    JustTheDoctor's Avatar Sergeant CoreCoins User
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    Originally Posted by istari21 View Post
    ALCHEMY!
    who test it on pts, what imba potions can craft?
    Alchemy sucks, the potions are great, but take 12h to craft...

  10. #10
    llCloNell's Avatar Sergeant Major CoreCoins User
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    Originally Posted by JustTheDoctor View Post
    Alchemy sucks, the potions are great, but take 12h to craft...
    per pot....?

  11. #11
    Druft's Avatar Private CoreCoins User
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    Tiamatq you are so full of shit it's actually funny. with your 22k per 8 hours, using 14 characters, that makes around a million ad per day. in 2 weeks that is close to 15 million. for you to say full set of rank 10 enchantments is anywhere around that, is funny as hell. now sure, you might have abused the shit out of other exploits to have such enchantments, but saying "i got it with crafting" is a load of crap. even the cheapest rank 10 (silvery) would be around 5 mil to make without counting wards. so good luck with that.

  12. #12
    lobomatic's Avatar Member CoreCoins User
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    You can only refine 25k AD per day anyway?

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