To the PQR Community, From Soapbox

[Soapbox]

I do not know really where or how to start this, or why I decided to post but here it goes...

I used to be a Core Developer for CLU(Honorbuddy), I would always strive to create the best possible DPS scenario for the CCs there to make sure I had the closest to human output in raid environment. I kept getting disappointed when I would destroy a dummy, but once I would get in a raid environment no mater what Bot Base i used (LazyRaider, Raid Bot, etc) It would slow WAY down. This was due to HB running checks on every single person and entity in the raid environment dramatically slowing it down. One of the other devs mentioned PQR in passing, talking about creating CCs around the same simple concept and that it would be better than PQR, because PQR was "slow".

So i decided to come here and do some research, boy was I surprised, it was not slow at all. I tried a few profiles out and was not happy with the capabilities of them, since for the most part(as with HB as well) there was not enough attention to detail to really use them in top tier content without drawing negative attention to your lacking DPS. So I dove in.

I created some profiles based on the classes I was playing at the time (Boomkin/Warlock) and fine tuned them to the best of my ability using the format that I used in CLU and it worked out surprisingly well. So the first thing I did was put up a free version of what I had done. In that week I had added the remaining features I wanted, then saved that version to release as a private version of what I used to those willing to "donate" or "pay".

Now while I am on the subject of "donating" I do not mean to beat a dead horse(well, it really is not dead). There was a lot of hate and discontent running around because I have been asking for a set donation amount to receive a certain product. The majority of those complaining about it, had orange names, or did at one point in time. Lets identify what this Orange name means...

For a $15 donation to support OwnedCore and its wealth of great content you will receive the following site features:
- Added to the Donator Usergroup
- Ad-Free Site Browsing
- Ability to post links in your signature
- Access to the private forums (Private Lounge (Donator and up Section), Private Guides, Exploits, and programs)
- Access to the Site Shoutbox to chat live with other users and staff on the site 24/7 (50 posts required to view).
- Private Message Storage of 150
- Beta to all new site features
- New Colorful Username
- Priority support with model editing and emulator server creation
- Larger Avatar Size restriction (120x120) 100kb
- Larger Profile Picture Size restriction (180x200) 150kb
- The good will knowledge that you are helping keep OwnedCore alive!

Now, as irrelevant as it is(I have been quiet about it long enough, I can at least give my 2c on it) the fact that I had Donators, and a administrator arguing for me to not use the word "Donate" when referring to a certain dollar amount when they not only support it, but in the case of a administrator, USE it blew my mind. While I know this was just one more thing to complain about to the guy who is going against what the spoken majority wants, it still is very low when you promote and support the same concept on a different operation.

Failroad, as much of a D-bag as he is provided some good work. I am not going to stroke his epeen too much, because he did not take care of his people, so if you can't put something out there and support those who pay for it then you are a 1 trick pony...There are many other coders out there, and I will not list them all because if I leave someone out on accident I do not want them to be offended. Just know and understand that every contributor and dev out there is amazing and i greatly appreciate the work that you do.

Again, I do not know the direction im going here, so when making a reply on "you post has no point etc" jut keep in mind i am simply expressing how I feel, something I have not done since I have came here.

The amount of negative feedback I have received from me selling profiles has dropped dramatically. Perhaps I did go about it the wrong way, out of the gates full speed. I have quite a large base of supporters (most of which don't comment on my threads, hell most i don't even know their OC names, just the amount of emails I have received after sending them profiles). Though every day I feel measures are being taken to slowly weed me out of the forums. I don't understand why I(and others) are being outcast to the trade forums where our profiles get swallowed by the account, powerleveling, goldselling threads. Can we not make a paid profile section? They are out there, not just PQR, and they are not going away. People like them, people hate them, but people buy them, LOTS of people buy them.

Why am i asking for this? a few reasons. I don't like being treated as a outcast because I choose to ask for something in return for the time i put into my profiles. Not everyone is the same. I also want to be able to better support my buyers, but when they post in the one place they know of (because they are human and don't read every fine detail before posting) I am unable to support them in the thread because I will get a infraction for TALKING about paid profiles.


The community has changed, it is not as friendly as it used to be. I will come out and say it right now, it is not because people chose to sell profiles(im telling you this hostility started when Failroad came here and me and personal opinions got the best of everyone) it is because a majority of the veteran members refused to support change. So in turn they lashed out and pushed some of these people to irritable levels.

Im going to close this out, I just scrolled up and saw how long this got. I am just at a point right now to where I do not know what I am going to do. I have some many ideas that I would like to continue to produce, and I will. It is really just up to the community if I will be allowed to keep them out here with the way I like to do it. When all of this went down, I do not think enough people spoke out in defense of myself and other paid writers. So we never really had a chance.

I have devloped great relationships with a lot of the OC contributors and Devs, I really enjoy working with you guys and seeing some great ideas come to life. Things have changed, and I would just really like if instead of putting so much effort into creating ways and rules to push us out of the forums you would just give it a chance and see where it goes.


Thanks again for the support to all of those who it applies to...


~Soapbox

[CreativeXtent]

I could not bare to read the wall of text.... but i think you are crying about people being mean and the bad in selling profiles/ CC's for money?
not being mean, just wondering...

[Ninjaderp]

You should read the whole text before commenting on it, so you actually know what you're commenting.

I fully support you in any direction you decide to take Soap, and I really long for a "paid profiles" section in here so people easier can find them instead of having to use the search-function. The WoW-trade section is too big as it is and its really hard to find something if you look for something specific there, I think most people would agree on that point.

Looking forward to a future paid-profile subforum!

[ph34rt3hcute1]

That's definitely the easiest solution to the whole thing, just make a paid-profile subforum.

[Taran32]

I think my main issue, Soap, is the idea of you guys asking for money to design a profile that's in turn used within a free program. Just seems against the spirit of what PQR's been about. It worries me to think that too many developers might go this route, because as much as I love the idea of certain "top" profiles being segregated from overuse or overpopulation by some form of control, the idea of that control being a cash "donation" might in turn cause some of the best FREE developers to suddenly halt production on some of the best free ones.

I guess my point is that I'm worried too many developers might get greedy, and then those of us who've been using PQR for awhile now, those of us who've really gotten comfortable with the knowledge that we can use an awesome program to do awesome DPS without the risk of paying monthly or bi-monthly fees to do so, are suddenly left with what are essentially "shittier" or "below-par" versions of what we sought in the first place. Does that make sense? As often as Blizzard likes to tweak things, that idea alone just irks me. I love what you, Failroad, and even n00pchop have done in the private sector, but I'm worried that too much of that might cause guys like Rubim, Leet, Sandman, Team Nova, or any of the other great free developers to jump aboard. I really love this program, and it's breathed new life into the game for me, but I'd hate to see even portions of its structure go "pay to play". I already have bills, college loans, WoW payments, car payments, and everything else coming out on a month to month basis. It'd suck to be forced to cough up even more cash just to enjoy all that PQR has to offer as well.

That being said, I also support there being a private section for coders who do what you guys do. The trade section is way, way too cluttered, and you're right in your assessment that your work would get lost in the trash. I just wish you guys would re-consider your decisions to only release your best work when there's money involved :/.

[js1974]

I think anyone that wants to sell or ask for a donation for their profile should have that right. They spend their time it's not like their time isn't worth it. So I support any profile or bot that charges or has donations always have and always will.

[imdasandman]

@ taran :
I will never charge. This is a hobby/learning experience. If anything us free coders will vanish due to piss poor moderation of people like failroad and other trolls.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

[Thaadevil]

I'm here for the bacon, can you point me at the directon I should head?

TL;DR OwnedCore Profile Section is not a trade forum.

[pve]

I have not been around for all the drama mentioned. I have used free profiles, and recently purchased from Soapbox. While I completely support free and open source software, the amount of fine tuning, optimizing, and pure butter that goes in to the (soapbox) paid profiles, is completely worth it (in my opinion).

I don't see the need to blacklist those that choose to charge for their expertise. Don't mistake my words as down playing the amazing individuals that keep pushing out the non-pay profiles that we all greedily use - often without even paying them a thank you.

(sorry for the gratuitous misuse of parenthesis)

[kuukuu]

I believe the general issue the "free developers" have with paid profiles is that some, not naming any, have been found to be basically our efforts code wise that's been then blatantly sold as someone else's work. It's kind of demoralizing to see things like that, not to mention we're all working together and sharing code to make the profiles in general better quality, whereas the paid ones aren't sharing anything. Which I understand to a degree and have no plans on quitting my free profiles any time soon as this is much more of a learning experience then anything I do for my programming classes in college sadly. Not sure exactly what I'm saying here other then to share things from the other side I guess.

We got off on the wrong foot when you first showed up Soap, but I have no ill will towards you so I hope some solution is found that works for everyone.

[Leetjerk]

Also @taran:
I'd never go paid either as all I've essentially done since I've been back is take ideas other people have and mash it up into one, little is actually mine hence the profiles name :P

[nilrem2004]

@Soapbox I completely agree, and I would like to add that nobody who hasn't tried to make a outstanding profile doesn't know the days/months needed to do such a thing. Almost anyone is capable of making a profile based on simcraft action list , let's be fair that isn't so hard but also that isn't so much time consuming also. I count only dummy testings in thousands and thousands, math predictions and raid testings, loggings and other stuff, my god I get lost in the sea of logs needed to do such a thing. What I support strongly is the opportunity PQR has given to us to create profiles and go beyond pure simcraft rotation , and for me that is a challenge and also very time consuming job especially if with that you have your own work. Also everyone is referring to a profile as something you create and that's it. What about support? What about countless wishes of profile users who want it to do this or that? Nobody is charging anyone for the profile as it is, there is support, updates, fixes, improvements, nobody thinks how much time that takes.I would very much like a paid profile section, that would really solve many problems.

[Gabbz]

The problem here is that you are trying to change something and not giving anything back. This forum is about making profiles and sharing knowledge. Not selling your work.
Go to trade forums if you want to sell. Or even better if you can make a paid profile forum. Just ask the mods if thats ok.

To go back to the issue at hand.
This forum is about as i said sharing knowledge and giving ideas how to proceed. We give all acess to our profiles so we can make better profiles. For example the way almost all profiles maker do event handling is based on my work that is based on sheurons work. You use the same but you are demanding donations. I think you even uses the Time To Tide function ?
I guess you use alot of other profilers work and sell it as your own. And you are not giving ANYTHING back to the creators.

Before this paid profile crap the community shared and gave and flourished.
The paid profile makers want to eat the cake and still have it. For example i guess you all want to use the new PQR interface or use nova Frames. But they intended it to not cost anything.

So to sum things up. If you think you need to get paid for making profiles then fine plz do so but not here.

[Mavmins]

So I'm new to PQR and I have used both free and 'donated' for profiles, including some from Soapbox. I made the choice to donate some money because I liked some of the extra features his seem to have over some of the free alternatives. But what I liked the most was when I had an issue with a profile he got on skype and chatted to me about it and got it working, thats what I see as the 'value added', plus im a sucky coder so waiting for someone to make what I would like could take months. Thats my 2c anyway, I like it as an option if I think its worth it, so a paid profiles sub-forum would be great imho.

[Ninjaderp]

Im curious to what moderators of the Bots Maps & Profiles-section would feel about a paid profile-subforum, I think it would make things a lot simpler for both developers and users.