I just want to talk about the premise of "Undetectable"

[Jaladhjin]

To those of you that played Diablo 2..after the hay day of utilities like C3P0..all the D2HackIt & several D2Loader plugins & switches in addition to its primary function..

Remember Sting's Map Hack ?

For a real long time the community was confident Reveal Act was undetectable..for various lengthily discussed reasons..

Until it wasn't..it took awhile..but eventually trouble did come of it..

So what I'm curious about..is whether the concept of undetectable is just as uncertain now as it was then..

I realize as time goes by..things get learned..either by the time telling itself..the wealth of extensive knowledge constantly becoming available & being discussed..the prospect of Blactivision changing Warden to detect things it may not have before..

The swagger of suggesting anything is undetectable is what made me think of it..since even I used Sting's for a long time..up to 1.11 with no trouble..I'd moved on before all the banning started..

If I haven't said it very well..I'm not ripping on anybody or any program for claiming its undetectable..I just want to talk..reminisce..& blather on about the implications I think the word undetectable carries with it..there's no need for the..nothing is ever really undetectable..if it concerns you..don't use it ;-)

/salute to the devs with safety in mind all the same..makes a far more quality project :-)

[Jokur]

Interesting topic.

I guess first lay out what does undetectable mean ? In my mind, I look at programs that either read only memory or programs that read & write to memory. The ladder introduces the ability to check to see if things in memory are actually changing from an outside source.

So.. If your only reading the programs memory and not writing to it, how would they detect it ?

Others will chime in I am sure of the ability to detect cursor hooks etc, but what if your even using that method ? How can you be detected ?

Lastly, I have also had conversations about the ability to read / analyze user32. From my perspective, I do not think it can be done 'legally'. And the application wanting to inspect it, would have to be running as administrator.

Anyway, would love to hear some thoughts from people who would obviously know a shit ton more then me on this topic.

J

[jeremie_bs]

This is WoW ,and you can't really compare the passive mouse using of wow bots to sting's map hack(aka bart simpson) which was using memory reading&editing

[Jaladhjin]

oh yeah yeah right I getcha..it was an example albeit a poor one ;-)

The point though..is the hubris that comes with people thinking anything is safe..it never is..so I'm just curious where that confidence comes from..is it really just well..we haven't been banned yet..so near as we can tell this isn't currently a detectable utility..

There's probably a lot of technical talk that goes along with it all too for a lot of the community..that's cool too..I'm just interested :-)